British and American tank designs of WW2

sparky

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
5,625
Sydney
it seems clear that no matter how poor the light British tanks were ,
with their medium they would have an overwhelming advantage on the beach of Sea Lion
against German infantry devoid of a lot of heavy weapons even the uninspiring Cruiser mark IV could be a serious problem

how good a tank is against other tanks on paper is irrelevant what matter is how useful the tanks are in a specific situation
 
Sep 2012
1,216
Tarkington, Texas
Redcoat, if it is a training vehicle, there are no crews assigned to them. After the British Army left France, there were no Tank units organized in the UK. The only Tank Division and Tank Brigade were decimated. The well trained Panzers would have torn them up. The Germans had a better training and system in place as well.

Pruitt
 
Apr 2014
416
Istanbul Turkey
Redcoat, if it is a training vehicle, there are no crews assigned to them. After the British Army left France, there were no Tank units organized in the UK. The only Tank Division and Tank Brigade were decimated. The well trained Panzers would have torn them up. The Germans had a better training and system in place as well.

Pruitt
Except crossing Channel in an organised well supplied manner supported by other services of the German Armed Forces with their copperation and copperation like embark deembark on hostile shores and establishing a supply system overseas. Only way those "better trained and organised superman panzer divisions" could operate efficiently in England is basically Nazi Germany acquiring beam up technology from Star Trek universe and magically appearing in UK with all rear echalon and supply tails sustaining them in place during active combat. During 1940 autumn , British still had 200 tanks in entire UK and on top of that , shipped 160 more tanks to Middle East for offensive operations against Italians at North Africa. Oh , when British Armored units went to active organised operations like Arras counter attack in 21 May 1940 , it was vaunted panzer divisions (Das Reich SS Brigade and one regiment of 7th Panzer Division ) which were cut to pieces due to their inefficient 37 mm anti tank guns. During that offensive British armor was only checked by 88 mm guns and air attacks by Stuka dive bombers which were pulled out of active operation over England in August 1940)
 
Nov 2014
1,684
Birmingham, UK
Only way those "better trained and organised superman panzer divisions" could operate efficiently in England is basically Nazi Germany acquiring beam up technology from Star Trek universe and magically appearing in UK with all rear echalon and supply tails sustaining them in place during active combat.
:)
 

Lord Fairfax

Ad Honorem
Jan 2015
3,499
Sea of Fate
The Covenantor was only used for training in the UK. It could well be a problem for the British to find crews for them.

Pruitt
No, it was not just training, the Covenanter was used to equip 1st & 2nd Armoured division in the summer of 1940, before being replaced by Crusader or Valentine tanks in early 1941.
Most of 1st Armoured personnel evacuated from France, but without their vehicles, so they simply reconstituted with the Covenanters.
The fact that the A13 tank was deemed unsuitable for the extreme climate of North Africa meant that they were all retained in the UK, and used for home defence and training.
It was certainly a serviceable tank for the milder British climate, otherwise they wouldn't have built 1,700 of them.

The Covenanter was prone to overheating in extreme conditions so it was never sent to the Desert, but this is much less of an issue in Britain in September, when average temperatures are in the mid 60's, not mid 90's.
With limited transport distances and ready access to mechanical & transport assets it would be far easier to manage the tanks cooling issues that it would have been in the Libyan desert
 

redcoat

Ad Honorem
Nov 2010
7,944
Stockport Cheshire UK
Redcoat, if it is a training vehicle, there are no crews assigned to them. After the British Army left France, there were no Tank units organized in the UK. The only Tank Division and Tank Brigade were decimated. The well trained Panzers would have torn them up. The Germans had a better training and system in place as well.

Pruitt
The Armoured force lost all of its tanks, it didn’t lose all of its men, the majority were evacuated back to Britain.
 

Lord Fairfax

Ad Honorem
Jan 2015
3,499
Sea of Fate
Redcoat, if it is a training vehicle, there are no crews assigned to them.
As mentioned, they are not training vehicles.

From July 1940 - summer 1941 all serviceable medium tanks were assigned to the brigades, on anti-invasion duty.
The brigades themselves continued training, but were ready to engage and repel an invasion in the unlikely event that the Germans got ashore

After the British Army left France, there were no Tank units organized in the UK.
???
Of course there are other tank units in the UK.

Only 1st Armoured division went to France prior to the German attack, (2nd & 3rd armoured brigades) plus 1st Army tank brigade.
During the battle a single battalion of 3rd RTR was also sent, to Calais.
After Dunkirk the a brigade of 1st Armoured division was reconstituted with new tanks, and the 20th Armoured brigade was added, all stationed in southern England.

The 2nd Armoured division was formed in Dec 1939, remained in the UK during the Battle of France, it originally had the 1st & 22nd brigades, by June 1940 it has about 200 tanks and is based in the Midlands.

Additionally, the 21st, 23rd, 24th & 25th Tank brigades are based in the UK during 1940.
British Armoured formations of World War II - Wikipedia

The only Tank Division and Tank Brigade were decimated.
As mentioned, the division wasn't decimated, it evacuated without it's tanks.
There are several other armoured divisions and several tank brigades available in the UK

The well trained Panzers would have torn them up.
And yet in the only significant tank battles during 1940 in France with British armour the German forces failed to tear anybody up...
 
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Lord Fairfax

Ad Honorem
Jan 2015
3,499
Sea of Fate
During the inter-war period there was no tank industry , no tank development and no tank budget

Then where do you suppose the Matilda and early Cruisers came from?

the Brits were screaming for tanks and when shown the medium M3 simply stated it was junk but they wanted thousands of them
The British didn't think it was junk, otherwise they wouldn't have used them.
They wanted the Americans to build Valentine's, but the US declined.
The Grants were ordered in early 1941, when it looked like the Crusader wouldnt work in the Desert.
(Later the Crusaders had better mmechanical reliability)
 

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
9,970
it seems clear that no matter how poor the light British tanks were ,
with their medium they would have an overwhelming advantage on the beach of Sea Lion
against German infantry devoid of a lot of heavy weapons even the uninspiring Cruiser mark IV could be a serious problem

how good a tank is against other tanks on paper is irrelevant what matter is how useful the tanks are in a specific situation
British tank design were not that bad in 1940. Aside form the lack of decent HE round they were mostly goodish. Teh pressures of 1940 were they were suddenly alone an dneeded every thing they could get slowed down the introduction of the 6-pdr, which was reasonable gun.