Brunei to expand use of Sharia law

tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
13,318
#91
Actually no, that is one reason why judiciary should be independent, otherwise political opponents can (and are) be silenced under all legal systems (Anwar Ibrahim's case was also not under shariah court and shariah law as i understand, in fact the Malaysian Penal Code ultimately derives from the British Indian Penal Code from the 1860s).
Judicial independence is actually a rare thing..... (see the recent case in Canada with executive pressure on the judiciary).... Even if the judiciary IS independent, if they are working based on a medieval penal code, there cannot be good results

Also Malaysia DOES have shariah law under a dual law system

Law of Malaysia - Wikipedia

The dual system of law is provided in Article 121(1A) of the Constitution of Malaysia. Article 3 also provides that Islamic law is a state law matter with the exception for the Federal Territories of Malaysia.[1] Islamic law refers to sharia law, and in Malaysia it is known and spelled as syariah.
 

Tulun

Ad Honorem
Nov 2010
3,789
Western Eurasia
#92
Judicial independence is actually a rare thing..... (see the recent case in Canada with executive pressure on the judiciary).... Even if the judiciary IS independent, if they are working based on a medieval penal code, there cannot be good results

Also Malaysia DOES have shariah law under a dual law system

Law of Malaysia - Wikipedia

The dual system of law is provided in Article 121(1A) of the Constitution of Malaysia. Article 3 also provides that Islamic law is a state law matter with the exception for the Federal Territories of Malaysia.[1] Islamic law refers to sharia law, and in Malaysia it is known and spelled as syariah.
Yes Malaysia applies shariah law in certain fields, mostly in personal and family law, that was not the question (so does many other countries applies it in those areas), but not in criminal law. Anwar Ibrahim's case was tired based on the Malay Penal Code which as i mentioned already evolved from British codified penal law from the 2nd half of the 19th century.

Then as i see you agree that all legal systems (common law, german-roman continental legal systems etc) can be abused to silence political opponents if there are no sufficient checks and guarantees , that was your initial criticism in post #84 as i understood.
 
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tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
13,318
#93
The guy who keeps defending Brunei keeps mentioning how it won’t apply to expats, probably because he is one, but this isn’t an expat forum and I don’t think that’s what most people here are concerned about.
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He is just using typical apologist tactics minimize, deny, lie and accuse others of not understanding the topic..... Of course it will affect everyone in that country

Saudi for example happily executes "witches" (yeah one can never be too careful with them evil witches) from any country, as some poor ethiopians and sudanese expats have found out....
 

tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
13,318
#94
Yes Malaysia applies shariah law in certain fields, mostly in personal and family law, that was not the question (so does many other countries applies it in those areas), but not in criminal law. Anwar Ibrahim's case was tired based on the Malay Penal Code which as i mentioned already evolved from British codified penal law from the 2nd half of the 19th century.

Then as i see you agree that all legal systems (common law, german-roman continental legal systems etc) can be abused to silence political opponents if there are no sufficient checks and guarantees , that was your initial criticism in post #84 as i understood.
Yes... but there is quite a big difference if this abuse sends you to prison for a few months or simply fines you, OR gets you tortured and killed ....
 

Tulun

Ad Honorem
Nov 2010
3,789
Western Eurasia
#96
Yes... but there is quite a big difference if this abuse sends you to prison for a few months or simply fines you, OR gets you tortured and killed ....
There is certainly a big difference, though it is again a broader issue than application of shariah law in criminal cases, that is the general question of application of penalties which can't be reversed in case of wrongful conviction. That is one of the arguments against death penalty in general. Though if somebody is "only" imprisoned for years wrongfully the matter still stands, can we truly compensate those lost years and prison trauma? i'm not sure what is the ideal solution, i'm in general not fan of prison sentences either, though i know there are limited alternative solutions. Very high procedural guarantees needed there certainly and really applying fully the in dubio pro reo.
 
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Naomasa298

Forum Staff
Apr 2010
33,651
T'Republic of Yorkshire
#97
He is just using typical apologist tactics minimize, deny, lie and accuse others of not understanding the topic..... Of course it will affect everyone in that country

Saudi for example happily executes "witches" (yeah one can never be too careful with them evil witches) from any country, as some poor ethiopians and sudanese expats have found out....
You will find that in places like Saudi, one law applies if you are from a poor country, and another if you are from a rich one.

In Malaysia, on the other hand, some laws do only apply to people depending on their religion.
 

Naomasa298

Forum Staff
Apr 2010
33,651
T'Republic of Yorkshire
#99
So does the US and many other countries

but they do not stone them
And was Anwar stoned?

And in fact, Anwar was NOT tried under Shariah law. He was tried under Malaysia's federal laws, which ban both hetero and homosexual sodomy and oral sex, a holdover of British colonial law.
 
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tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
13,318
And was Anwar stoned?

And in fact, Anwar was NOT tried under Shariah law. He was tried under Malaysia's federal laws, which ban both hetero and homosexual sodomy and oral sex, a holdover of British colonial law.
Did I say he was ?

This was my original sentence

Malaysia is not really poor, nor is it very liberal.....