Bullsh*t jobs

Sep 2017
710
United States
#51
The hidden insight has a name. Nonsense. High standards exist not because those individuals are listened to, but because they are ignored. Nobody but anthropologists care why a witch doctor believes someone with HIV can sleep with a child to cure it, its just nonsense. Likewise, I don't need a PhD in anthropology to know that the opinion of a socialist activist bent on destroying capitalism, writing about something involving capitalism, is propaganda and nothing more. I did my due diligence, read Marx, so I know his points.

Useless jobs don't exist. You might not find them valuable, but someone does, because that is why there is a paycheck associated with them.
The hidden insight is entirely what you take away from the encounter. Standards, of course, exist for a reason. But this is an online forum, where debate and discussion from people of all levels of intelligence and all kinds of viewpoints are welcomed to be both put forth and subject to criticism. I think many more can benefit from understanding why the Witch Doctor believes that. Psychologists, historians, educators, philosophers, aid workers, and so on all have something to gain from that conversation. And any regular person, with their own interpretations, I'm sure can find something of personal value, even if it does not directly connect with what the WD means; it just depends on how willing to listen someone is. You can solidly know the man's intentions, and criticize his morals and thinking. But he has raised a question regardless of his original purpose that has caused some legitimate discussion independent of his opinions.

I would agree with you that useless jobs don't exist. This question gives you an opportunity to demonstrate why that is so and defend your case against those who would argue that it is so. We've been given an opportunity to learn and teach.
 
Sep 2017
710
United States
#52
You can listen to anyone. How you choose to spend your time during a day is your own business. However, I agree with aggienation. There is no sense in acknowledging nonsense. It only empowers more nonsense. Did you know there is a large group of people who still believe the world is flat? If something that stupid can gain traction in the modern world, couldn't this?

I suppose you could learn the person's opinion is subjective and that you should no longer waste your time speaking with them. Time is a precious resource.
That's not necessarily true. Discussing his theory here has not enabled more nonsense, but rather rational discussion that has value. I am aware that people still believe that. But if we don't understand why they think that way and how it makes sense to them and spreads, how can we hope to dissuade and counter them and therefore develop our own concrete understanding of why it is fundamentally flawed and exercise our logistic, reasoning, and critical thinking muscles?

Time is a precious resource, and I would say it is wasted when you only look to affirm your current beliefs rather than challenge yourself.
 
Jul 2016
9,347
USA
#53
That's not necessarily true. Discussing his theory here has not enabled more nonsense, but rather rational discussion that has value. I am aware that people still believe that. But if we don't understand why they think that way and how it makes sense to them and spreads, how can we hope to dissuade and counter them and therefore develop our own concrete understanding of why it is fundamentally flawed and exercise our logistic, reasoning, and critical thinking muscles?

Time is a precious resource, and I would say it is wasted when you only look to affirm your current beliefs rather than challenge yourself.
By discussing this turd's ideas we're giving him publicity, helping his book sell, designed to destroy my country, and helping Mr. Socialist Activist make money. Nope. That's bad. That's empowering bad behavior. That's like giving free condoms to serial rapists, or giving shooting lessons to cartel gunmen. Its the complete opposite of what is supposed to happen.
 

tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
13,385
#54
That isn't a useless job. That is crap supervision from management, that should have been caught. Somebody expected that person to work, which is why that position existed and why that individual was paid. The fact that they didn't do their job doesn't mean the job is worthless, it means whatever their tasks were ended up being done by someone else who had to carry the load.

Example: Husband is lazy and doesn't help with the babies, so wife does all the work. Are fathers useless jobs? No. That father is a useless human being.
I think the issue arises when generalizing..... Clearly some positions are useless (thus they are BS jobs), but this does not mean that the same skills used in that position are not useful elsewhere

As in the above theoritical example an engineer hired to stand around in your house (or hired to sit in an office and do nothing) has a BS job.. An engineer working on -for example- designing a new engine has a useful job. Just like people tend to gain weight (useless fat) so do large company tend to create useless positions ... Then once in a while, people go on a diet and lose some of the fat, and companies go on an optimization spree eliminating some of the useless positions (thus proving that they were in fact useless)
 

tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
13,385
#55
Why would someone hire an engineer to stand around in their house? That seems a strange example. Do you get the tone of the book to be centered around companies wasting their money hiring people they don't actually need?

Personally, I think its pretty clear that the person is trying to bash capitalism and conformity. Not shed light on the fact that there are some people working in jobs where they aren't properly utilized.
Because people do stupid things and so do companies......

Regardless of the motives of the author, he got a very significant response from people who thought -rightly or wrongly- that they had BS jobs.

For example see this

37% of British workers think their jobs are meaningless | YouGov
 
Jul 2016
9,347
USA
#56
I think the issue arises when generalizing..... Clearly some positions are useless (thus they are BS jobs), but this does not mean that the same skills used in that position are not useful elsewhere

As in the above theoritical example an engineer hired to stand around in your house (or hired to sit in an office and do nothing) has a BS job.. An engineer working on -for example- designing a new engine has a useful job. Just like people tend to gain weight (useless fat) so do large company tend to create useless positions ... Then once in a while, people go on a diet and lose some of the fat, and companies go on an optimization spree eliminating some of the useless positions (thus proving that they were in fact useless)
So let me get this straight. Let's say I manage to con my company into doing little to no work and they pay me. This might even go on for a while, because my management sucks and doesn't supervise, they don't bother to actually check, so I get away with not doing anything and getting paid. According to you my job is BS. Yet my job was created with a task. Who is doing that task when I don't? If my job is BS, whose job is made harder because I don't do my job?

If that job is truly useless and has no task assigned to it, then its not supposed to exist, and the failure is on management for not knowing and doing something about it.

Jobs come and go, they're supposed to. They're only supposed to exist because a demand is being supplied. Once the demand is gone, then the job should be gone. If not, its management's fault.
 
Jul 2016
9,347
USA
#57
Because people do stupid things and so do companies......

Regardless of the motives of the author, he got a very significant response from people who thought -rightly or wrongly- that they had BS jobs.

For example see this

37% of British workers think their jobs are meaningless | YouGov
A substantial portion of the western world has to numb themselves on alcohol, drugs, and SSRI psych meds because they think life as a whole is meaningless. That isn't because it is, its because they lack resilience and are unhappy.

Don't like your job? Leave.
 
Likes: specul8

tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
13,385
#58
So let me get this straight. Let's say I manage to con my company into doing little to no work and they pay me. This might even go on for a while, because my management sucks and doesn't supervise, they don't bother to actually check, so I get away with not doing anything and getting paid. According to you my job is BS. Yet my job was created with a task. Who is doing that task when I don't? If my job is BS, whose job is made harder because I don't do my job?

If that job is truly useless and has no task assigned to it, then its not supposed to exist, and the failure is on management for not knowing and doing something about it.

Jobs come and go, they're supposed to. They're only supposed to exist because a demand is being supplied. Once the demand is gone, then the job should be gone. If not, its management's fault.
Depends... If your job is to feed the horses, but for any reason there are no longer any horses (they all died or were sold), no one is doing that task and no one's job is made harder... In fact the guy whose job was to clean horse manure, also now has nothing to do... As does the guy who was supposed to look after the horses health... And all 3 of you might have a vested interest in continuing to pretend there are horses around (the pay is good, the hours are good, there is no pressure and your house is nearby).... While your manager, who gets paid based on his headcount or perhaps on the number of tasks under his supervision has no interest in firing you, cause then his compensation would decrease.....
This is obviously a simplified image.... In real life its more complex, but there are plenty of similar examples... which is why cost reduction exercises carried out in companies often result in 20% or more savings... at least half of which are elimination of unneeded positions.
 
Jul 2016
9,347
USA
#60
better the devil you know ... and all that....

for most people.... why take the risk and lose the benefits....
I get that. I'm in a situation where I despise the company I work for but am stuck in it for a few more months before I can move on to greener pastures. But that is my own choice, and damn if I'd ever complain about life being unfair or my job being useless just because my company stinks and management is incompetent and toxic. That isn't a fault of the industry, definitely not a fault of capitalism, its just people being people. I'm included, me sticking around empowers their bad behavior, it enables them to continue without repercussions in the form of an employee exodus.
 

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