Byzantine-Russian relations if the Byzantine Empire will survive at least up to the 20th century?

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
22,321
SoCal
What would Byzantine-Russian relations have looked like if the Byzantine Empire would have survived at least up to the 20th century? I'm curious about this because the Byzantines and the Russians would have been by far the two most powerful Eastern Orthodox countries in the world and thus I wonder what relations between them would have looked like. Would they have been friendly and cooperative or would there have been a spirit of competitiveness and/or hostility towards each other?

Any thoughts on this?
 
Apr 2017
1,662
U.S.A.
Why do you think a surviving Byzantine empire would be one of the most powerful eastern orthodox countries in the world? What if it was just a city-state?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Futurist

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
22,321
SoCal
Why do you think a surviving Byzantine empire would be one of the most powerful eastern orthodox countries in the world? What if it was just a city-state?
Because if it's just a city-state then it most likely wouldn't be strong enough to survive up to the 20th century. This is why I am thinking of having Manuel Komnenos have a surviving adult male heir at the time of his death in 1180; that way, hopefully the Byzantine Empire can avoid the events of 1204 and their aftermath and thus survive for much longer.
 
Jan 2013
1,067
Toronto, Canada
The Russians would treat the Byzantines in the same way that the Russian church treats the Greek church - formal respect for the ancient model on which Russian institutions were built, combined with a patronizing assumption that Constantinople should follow Moscow's lead because Russia is the modern leader of the Orthodox world.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Futurist

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
22,321
SoCal
The Russians would treat the Byzantines in the same way that the Russian church treats the Greek church - formal respect for the ancient model on which Russian institutions were built, combined with a patronizing assumption that Constantinople should follow Moscow's lead because Russia is the modern leader of the Orthodox world.
It's easier to bully Greeks than it would be to bully Byzantines, though. After all, the Byzantine Empire is going to have a much larger population than Greece has.
 
Aug 2018
337
America
The Byzantine Empire would basically be reduced to a Russian protectorate the same way the Austro-Hungarian Empire was very much a German protectorate by WWI, if the British don't decide to Balkanise it or carve it up, as it happened to the Ottoman Empire.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Futurist
Aug 2018
337
America
It's easier to bully Greeks than it would be to bully Byzantines, though. After all, the Byzantine Empire is going to have a much larger population than Greece has.
By the time you stipulate (Manuel Komnenos), the Byzantines were basically just Greece with few outside enclaves. I doubt that their population at the time of WWI, for example, would have exceeded 15 million at most, and that's exaggerating seeing how the Orthodox Balkans today in 2019 number about 30 million. Russia would still be laughably more powerful and bully them just as easily, really.
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
22,321
SoCal
By the time you stipulate (Manuel Komnenos), the Byzantines were basically just Greece with few outside enclaves. I doubt that their population at the time of WWI, for example, would have exceeded 15 million at most, and that's exaggerating seeing how the Orthodox Balkans today in 2019 number about 30 million. Russia would still be laughably more powerful and bully them just as easily, really.
The Byzantines actually still controlled most of the northern Balkans in 1180 as well as most or all of coastal Anatolia.

You need to define the exact borders of this byzantine empire and how it survived being conquered by the Ottoman empire.
At the very least, the Byzantines keep their 1180 borders, but they could expand further if you want just as long as this is actually realistic. As for how it would survive, as I wrote above, avoiding the events of 1204 could go a long way in regards to this--and the best way to avoid these events would be for Manuel Komnenos to have an adult son at the time of his death in 1180.
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
22,321
SoCal
The Byzantine Empire would basically be reduced to a Russian protectorate the same way the Austro-Hungarian Empire was very much a German protectorate by WWI, if the British don't decide to Balkanise it or carve it up, as it happened to the Ottoman Empire.
Would the Byzantines be as dependent on the Russians for security as A-H was on Germany in WWI, though? AFAIK, A-H only became a German satellite state during WWI--though it was already heavily dependent on Germany for its security for decades before that point in time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kotromanic