Can a US state secede?

Sep 2014
939
Texas
I saw a shirt the other day on a woman that said, "Secede? Be thankful we don't Invade." As a Texan I can tell you there is no mood in Texas to secede or to seperate into different states. And as I understood it, to be readmitted into the Union they had to sign some documents saying they would never do it again. i know ratification of the 13th amendment was not it sense Mississippi didn't ratify it until in my lifetime and contrary to myth I am not THAT old.

Now there are more states that did not have to agree to this so I guess it's possible California could do it. But I'm guessing like Texas if push comes to shove, they'll just split in Two.
 

Kevinmeath

Ad Honoris
May 2011
14,030
Navan, Ireland
No. Just because some fools think they are above the law, they can not succeed....we won't go along with it anyway. What they can do is divide Texas into five additional states...which is more likely than succession.
I am not suggesting its likely but rather what would the reaction be if such a thing did happen. I am thinking of the situation in Scotland and Catalonia, what would the USA's reaction be if ,as in Scotland, a separatist party---- through peaceful democratic means-- pushed for an independence referendum , would it be granted and the result respected?

Or if in Catalonia's example the Texas legislature organised one and it passed what would happen?
 

Chlodio

Forum Staff
Aug 2016
4,471
Dispargum
Theoretically a state could secede if Congress agreed. It's highly unlikely Congress would agree. Secession is a form of defiance against federal authority. i doubt the federal government would allow a state to defy its authority.
 

Code Blue

Ad Honorem
Feb 2015
4,272
Caribbean
Theoretically a state could secede if Congress agreed. It's highly unlikely Congress would agree. Secession is a form of defiance against federal authority. i doubt the federal government would allow a state to defy its authority.
Where do you get this from? What federal authority? The authority of more guns?

For example, Lincoln declared a state of emergency and used the army to arrest the Maryland legislature. What part of the Constitution authorizes that? Which Federalist Paper explains this?
 
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Kevinmeath

Ad Honoris
May 2011
14,030
Navan, Ireland
Theoretically a state could secede if Congress agreed. It's highly unlikely Congress would agree. Secession is a form of defiance against federal authority. i doubt the federal government would allow a state to defy its authority.
So would the USA occupy 'Texas' (or wherever) against popular opinion in that state? -- would the 'British/English' be legitimate in 'occupying Scotland' in the aftermath of a 'Yes' vote?
 

Code Blue

Ad Honorem
Feb 2015
4,272
Caribbean
Or if in Catalonia's example the Texas legislature organised one and it passed what would happen?
It is telling that anyone even has to ask these questions. No one can say for sure. Since the federal government operates by ad hoc law, it would depend on who had control in DC, etc.


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Kevinmeath

Ad Honoris
May 2011
14,030
Navan, Ireland
No one can say for sure. It would depend on who had control in DC, etc.
What do you think? for yourself and beyond?

I have often read on here and other places of many Americans being very pro Scottish independence but would the USA have allowed a 'Scottish referendum'? and or respected its result?
 

Chlodio

Forum Staff
Aug 2016
4,471
Dispargum
For example, Lincoln declared a state of emergency and used the army to arrest the Maryland legislature. What part of the Constitution authorizes that?
We've discussed this before. My answer is still a plain text reading of Article 1, Section 9, 2 of the US Constitution: "The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it."


Where do you get this from? What federal authority? The authority of more guns? ... Which Federalist Paper explains this?
Every difference of opinion we have disappears once we both acknowledge that you are a Constitutional originalist and I am not. My Constitution is not limited to the founders and the Federalist Papers because my Constitution lives and breathes.
 

Chlodio

Forum Staff
Aug 2016
4,471
Dispargum
So would the USA occupy 'Texas' (or wherever) against popular opinion in that state? -- would the 'British/English' be legitimate in 'occupying Scotland' in the aftermath of a 'Yes' vote?
Yes, the US could occupy Texas against the popular opinion in that state. The Civil War and Reconstruction provide ample precedent. In the case of England/Scotland, there is a completely different set of laws in place there, and I will let the Brits work that out for themselves.
 

Code Blue

Ad Honorem
Feb 2015
4,272
Caribbean
What do you think? for yourself and beyond?
I have often read on here and other places of many Americans being very pro Scottish independence but would the USA have allowed a 'Scottish referendum'? and or respected its result?
I take it you mean would Americans allow something like a Scottish referendum by one of the states.

I believe opinions would be mixed, and would change if theory become reality. In theory, most Americans would be willing to let a state withdraw. However, once you identify a state the thought process would open a huge can of worms and approval would drop. For example, it might sound harmless if Colorado wanted to be independent until youi realize this is where NORAD is. Most people would probably first ask about things like national debt and social security, and there would be no cutting those babies in two.