Can last Bulgar rulers speak Kıpchak language ?

Joined Nov 2010
4,571 Posts | 770+
Western Eurasia
:lol:
In Kazakh, Uzbek, Tatar and other east Turkic languages "Kut" is rude version of the "butt".

It is rather "köt" ( көт ) there, no? It is also used in Turkey Turkish göt.

One of the Cuman rulers was also called Köten, (Hung. Kötöny, Rus. Котян), presumably from this same root.


It is thought that his name also means something like "he who has butt", somewhere I read a theory that it could be a sort of protective name, i.e. if someone is named like this, he would sit firmly on the horse or something like that :))
 
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krs

Joined Jul 2020
56 Posts | 40+
Istanbul-Varna
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Agree that with centuries the main word ‘kut’ may have evolved and newer forms with additions Kut-suz,kut-lamak,kut-almis.... But ‘kut’ is inscribed on stones in Orkhon inscriptions in 7th and 8th century in old turkic alphabet- runic. Here are some transliterations and pictures of those inscriptions of the main 3 stones who are princely:
 
Joined Jun 2020
1,496 Posts | 752+
Kazakhstan
It is rather "köt" ( көт ) there, no? It is also used in Turkey Turkish göt.

One of the Cuman rulers was also called Köten, (Hung. Kötöny, Rus. Котян), presumably from this same root.


It is thought that his name also means something like "he who has butt", somewhere I read a theory that it could be a sort of protective name, i.e. if someone is named like this, he would sit firmly on the horse or something like that :))

In Kazakh it is "köt" which is short mix of "o" and "u". In Uzbek and Tatar it is "kut".
 
Joined Jul 2017
398 Posts | 56+
Neverland
This is one of many versions. Plus "kip" in this version means "pale yellow"

In persian RED =qermez, YELLOW=zard. In the turkish lingo RED=kirmizi or kizil, YELLOW=sari, PALE=soluk.
That's according to my Google translator.
There is no Kipchak nation, but the term is the alternative name for..Cumans, just like Scythians is for the european scyths, but the asian ones are called - Saka, Shaka or Chaka.

That said, the Kipchaks and Cumans have the same warlords as leaders. For example, Koten is mentioned as leader of Cumans and king of Kipchaks too. This same Koten leads 40000+ cuman families, roughly 160000 - 200000 cumans into Hungary in 1238-1239, chased by the Mongols of Batu khan. Koten is killed by the hungarians to placate the mongols, but their saga continue - they run to Bulgaria seeking asylim with general Kadan of the mongols after them. Reaching Bulgaria, the second kingdom king - John Kaliman ambushes 25000 mongol army in the mountain passes and destroys most of the mongol tyumens.

Batu khan sends the rest of the 200000 mongol army into Bulgaria and forces vassalage upon the Middle kingdom of Bulgaria.
As a result half of the 200000 cumans go back to Hungary. Cumans(aka Kipchaks) skeletons are DNA-ed and established to be Caucasian people with some of them with eastasian admixture.
.

From the map of ancient Scythia we can see the Scythians are spread from the Black Sea to the borders of China and India.In Kyrgyzstan for example the original Scythians(sakas) are present there till the 800s AD. Another easternmost Scythian nation
bordering China are the Yuezhi located in southern Xianjian province.Chinese annals mention of blond, red and brownhaired people on their western borders. Because of extreme dry conditions in the capital of today's Uyghuristan - Urumki we can see well preserved mummies of these Scythians, known as Tarim basin mummies. Here are some photos.

1598993952592.png 1598994002694.png

1598994067870.png 1598994219796.png

1598994263855.png 1598994414647.png

These Yuezhi aka Tocharians will emigrate after their defeat by the mongolian Hsiung Nu to Bactria, where more Scythians like them reside. The Yuezhi destroy the greek kingdom of Bactria and establish the Kushan empire, creating an ethnos known today as...Bulgarians, named after the capital city - Balkh or Balh. First known as balkars and finally as bulgars. Note that these Yuezhi mummies have red, brown or dark blond hair.


The present lands of ancient Scythia are today countries that are named..STAN, which in persian stands for country. These are all turkic speaking and settled there, after centuries old genocide against them by Mongols and China. The latter will grab the old turkic lands in North China and Southern Mongolia and expel the Turks westward.
 
Joined Jun 2012
15,528 Posts | 2,868+
Malaysia
In persian RED =qermez, YELLOW=zard. In the turkish lingo RED=kirmizi or kizil, YELLOW=sari, PALE=soluk.
That's according to my Google translator.
There is no Kipchak nation, but the term is the alternative name for..Cumans, just like Scythians is for the european scyths, but the asian ones are called - Saka, Shaka or Chaka.
Wonder if you would consider the pre-Persian Medes of ancient Iran as Scythians also. Maybe part-Scythians at least. Or possibly hybrid Scytho-Cimmerians.
 
Joined Mar 2012
1,510 Posts | 109+
Magdeburg
In persian RED =qermez, YELLOW=zard. In the turkish lingo RED=kirmizi or kizil, YELLOW=sari, PALE=soluk.
That's according to my Google translator.
There is no Kipchak nation, but the term is the alternative name for..Cumans, just like Scythians is for the european scyths, but the asian ones are called - Saka, Shaka or Chaka.

That said, the Kipchaks and Cumans have the same warlords as leaders. For example, Koten is mentioned as leader of Cumans and king of Kipchaks too. This same Koten leads 40000+ cuman families, roughly 160000 - 200000 cumans into Hungary in 1238-1239, chased by the Mongols of Batu khan. Koten is killed by the hungarians to placate the mongols, but their saga continue - they run to Bulgaria seeking asylim with general Kadan of the mongols after them. Reaching Bulgaria, the second kingdom king - John Kaliman ambushes 25000 mongol army in the mountain passes and destroys most of the mongol tyumens.

Batu khan sends the rest of the 200000 mongol army into Bulgaria and forces vassalage upon the Middle kingdom of Bulgaria.
As a result half of the 200000 cumans go back to Hungary. Cumans(aka Kipchaks) skeletons are DNA-ed and established to be Caucasian people with some of them with eastasian admixture.
.

From the map of ancient Scythia we can see the Scythians are spread from the Black Sea to the borders of China and India.In Kyrgyzstan for example the original Scythians(sakas) are present there till the 800s AD. Another easternmost Scythian nation
bordering China are the Yuezhi located in southern Xianjian province.Chinese annals mention of blond, red and brownhaired people on their western borders. Because of extreme dry conditions in the capital of today's Uyghuristan - Urumki we can see well preserved mummies of these Scythians, known as Tarim basin mummies. Here are some photos.

View attachment 35664 View attachment 35665

View attachment 35666 View attachment 35667

View attachment 35668 View attachment 35669

These Yuezhi aka Tocharians will emigrate after their defeat by the mongolian Hsiung Nu to Bactria, where more Scythians like them reside. The Yuezhi destroy the greek kingdom of Bactria and establish the Kushan empire, creating an ethnos known today as...Bulgarians, named after the capital city - Balkh or Balh. First known as balkars and finally as bulgars. Note that these Yuezhi mummies have red, brown or dark blond hair.


The present lands of ancient Scythia are today countries that are named..STAN, which in persian stands for country. These are all turkic speaking and settled there, after centuries old genocide against them by Mongols and China. The latter will grab the old turkic lands in North China and Southern Mongolia and expel the Turks westward.
Turks never had a 'fixed' appearance. Göktürks were members of Ashina clan who, according to Chinese records, had mixed Easertn Asian and Caucasian looks. Some turkic tribes may havee looked more different than others.
Early turkic empires had more 'eastern' looking royal clans which mighr have given a stereotypical opinion on modern historians.
 
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Joined Jun 2020
1,496 Posts | 752+
Kazakhstan
In persian RED =qermez, YELLOW=zard. In the turkish lingo RED=kirmizi or kizil, YELLOW=sari, PALE=soluk.
That's according to my Google translator.
There is no Kipchak nation, but the term is the alternative name for..Cumans, just like Scythians is for the european scyths, but the asian ones are called - Saka, Shaka or Chaka.

An interesting method to use Google translator to decipher etymology of a "word" originating from (at least) 8 century.
 
Joined Jul 2017
398 Posts | 56+
Neverland
Wonder if you would consider the pre-Persian Medes of ancient Iran as Scythians also. Maybe part-Scythians at least. Or possibly hybrid Scytho-Cimmerians.

Part of the Iranic nation worshipping Mithra and Ahura Mazda. Herodotus writes in 440 BC that before they were called Medes, everybody called them Arians.
Better known today as Kurds.
Here is something to spice up your day - kurdish women..wink wink

 
Joined Jul 2017
398 Posts | 56+
Neverland
Turks never had a 'fixed' appearance. Göktürks were members of Ashina clan who, according to Chinese records, had mixed Easertn Asian and Caucasian looks. Some turkic tribes may havee looked more different than others.
Early turkic empires had more 'eastern' looking royal clans which mighr have given a stereotypical opinion on modern historians.
Yep...just like the folks in Magdeburg...some are east asian looking, some sporting the african look, some blond, some not so blond.
Can you please elaborate on ..Non fixed looks?
 
Joined Nov 2010
4,571 Posts | 770+
Western Eurasia
In Kazakh it is "köt" which is short mix of "o" and "u". In Uzbek and Tatar it is "kut".

Little late reply, but I just checked the "kut" we were talking about (originally meaning "favour of heaven" or "good fortune") has supposedly became Құт in modern Kazakh (as opposed to the etymologically unrelated көт/göt butt :)). Is it used in any daily expressions there as in modern Turkish? like there kutlu means now happy/fortunate, kutsal means sacred, or it totally fell out of use in Kazakh?
 
Joined Jun 2020
1,496 Posts | 752+
Kazakhstan
Yes it is used for congradulations:
Quttyktaimen - my congradulations
 
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