Can the communism fall during the II world war

#1
I have one question. What it happened In case of that USA and UK don't help to USSR against the Germany, and the Nazis succeeded to occupied the USSR. It's clearly that the germans will be defeatеd after 1 are 2 years from russian's partisans and with help of western anti nazis powers. But one eventual defeat of russian's communist state will undermine communist ideology among the russian peoples.
I think that in this case communism will fall in discredit because it hasn't been the fundamental victor of Germany and the main merit will be to western powers who don't allow of the communism to spread in Europe anyhow in reality after russian's victory over the Germany in 1944 and 1945.
[ame]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJ7SKPNWdRI[/ame]
 
Oct 2008
23
#2
It would be a new world order. Actually this was not possible because the russian people has been living in terrible conditions from centuries and are survival nation, that's why they can not admit german occupation.
 
Nov 2008
2
#3
If the UK and USA did not help Russia against Germany, most probably the communism wouldn't spread that widely in Europe, specially in Eastern Europe. The Russian people would perhaps lose much of its confidence and faith in the communist ideology and then the Soviet Bloc probably was not going to exist. The Cold War between the Soviet allies and the Western allies would not start and I also think that communism wouldn't even spread to Cuba and China... By the way, that video has shocking images..
 

Rosi

Historum Emeritas
Jul 2008
6,242
#4
Theoretically speaking, according to Marxism, communism is a stage that comes after socialism, which comes after capitalism. And there's a good reason why, as it's the logical progression of things. USSR jumped the gun when it tried to advance straightaway to communism. So it wasn't gonna last anyway since the fundamentals were all screwed up. If Nazi Germany had occupied the erstwhile USSR, then communism wouldn't have flowered in that part of the world (for whatever duration) in the first place. It was a lose-lose situation for communism either way.

What Lenin tried to do when he was building on Marxism is expedite the whole process of bringing in a revolution. Russia wasn't a capitalist society to begin with, so it can't have progressed to socialism. But he altered this basic Marxist belief saying that capitalism is going through its worst phase -- imperialism -- so that changes the rules of the game a bit. He pinned his hopes on other developing nations in Europe undergoing a revolution as well simultaneously. Failing that, he hoped at least the industrialized nations (like Germany) would see revolutions of this sort and then help the not-so-developed societies like Russia to get there. In hindsight it looks all very very unconvincing... this process of rushing towards communism. He may have had his reasons, but to me it looks like it wasn't very well thought out. There were too many variables in the equation.
 

Nick

Historum Emeritas
Jul 2006
6,111
UK
#5
If Russia was occupied by the Germans most of the population would be exterminated or enslaved.
 
Jan 2008
18,733
Chile, Santiago
#6
Hitler hated communism. He also thought the Russians to be "racially impure" because of the invasion of the mongols centuries early which led to interbreeding among the people. What the nazis should have done to help themselves was to liberate the citizens from Stalin and create a military force to fight against anyone still loyal to Stalin. This happened on a small scale but if Hitler was smart he would have used this strategy on a larger scale. We all know that once he crushed all opposition, he would turn on the people who would have thought of him as a hero.
 

avon

Forum Staff
May 2008
14,253
#7
Marxism-Stalinism suffered during WWII anyhow. With the German invasion of the USSR, Stalin placed party ideology on the backburner and appealed to Russian nationalism as an alternative. Only once the Germans had been repulsed was Communist ideology brought back to the forefront of Stalin's political dialogue.
 
#8
Nick

“If Russia was occupied by the Germans most of the population would be exterminated or enslaved.”

The German’s never managed to effectively occupy the Soviet Union yet Stalin managed to exterminate 20 million, some claim as high as 100 million of his own people. Perhaps they would have been better served under the inefficient Nazis who only managed 6 million. Did you know Stalin had the equivalent of several divisions of Soviet troops executed during the push to Berlin?

Germany had lost the war as soon as the US became involved economically it was just a matter of time. Even before that Germany had to win fast before the economic might of the British Empire could be brought to bear. Blitzkrieg was an economic necessity as well as a military one. Germany needed the Russian oil and grain to stand any chance but even with that it was merely a matter of time. Britain’s decision to fight on after the fall of France was a pivotal point in history.

Japan was also in the same position economically it could not win, it also gambled on a fast victory.

As for Stalin he hated to admit it but without US support he would have pulled back East and kept going. Russian tanks may have fired the shells but US trucks and jeeps did the rest.
 

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