Can we consider France a Germanic country?

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
5,950
Spain
#62
Another extravagance, subsequently comprehensively trashed.
OK.. and I agree... but so... don´t write R1b is matched to Celtic and don´t write France is a celtic country!.... Because that R1b is higher in Spain than in Low Countries or France is not an extravangace but a MATHEMATIC certainty
 

authun

Ad Honorem
Aug 2011
4,901
#63
OK.. and I agree... but so... don´t write R1b is matched to Celtic and don´t write France is a celtic country!.... Because that R1b is higher in Spain than in Low Countries or France is not an extravangace but a MATHEMATIC certainty
I don't think anyone is discussing it. It is banned afterall and attempting to discuss it is likely to get the thread closed. Please desist.

If you want to make the point that Keltoi or Galli are ancient names used by the greeks and romans to describe many peoples, not one particular group, there are better ways describe the problem than resorting to genetics. For example, Koch explains the problems well:


"Thus the Celts have been assumed to be (1) all users of the iron age material culture called La Tene for the swiss type site, (2) all speakers of early celtic languages and (3) all groups called Keltoi or Celtae by Greeks and Romans. (The same ancient writers also repeatedly stated the equivalence of Keltoi/Celtae with Galli or Galatae and generaly regarded the former pair as more ancient and correct). Thus anyone of these three symptoms has often been taken to imply the other two and to be adequate to confirm the presence of Celts.

At best the three way modern synthesis is frayed at the edges. La Tene is rare to non existent in areas with well attested ancient celtic languages in South West Ireland, the Iberian peninsular and Anatolia. Greeks or Romans never used the terms Keltoi or Galli to describe the inhabitants of Britain and Ireland and, so far as we know, the inhabitants never applied such labels to themselves."
 
Last edited:
Jan 2014
989
Rus
#64
In this great forum I´ve read some extravagances...kind... were the vikings the first European to be in Nebraska? or.... Was George Washington a black from Niger? Bu this one is on top... France a Germanic Country? Not more than England is a Latin Country.. . Well.. in fact, most of English vocabulary come from Latin (well directly well though other languages)... for sure more than French vocabulary from German language...

To say France is Celtic....if for a heart broken because of laughing.... and Saudi Arabia is a Celtic country too....

Only because USA is one of richest country on Earth (1st EU, 2nd China 3rd USA) is not necessary people suck up one US Irish billionaire to invente the History.... not dear.... Celtic peoples were in many different places (according to Strabo) the core of Celtic tribes were in Extremadura (betweeen modern Portugal and Spain).. he didn´t write the Celtic core was in Paris, Amsterdam, New York or Berlin...

In fact, not celtic core at all... Celtic Tribes (not a language, not a tradition, not a ethnicity..nothing more ridicolous than the famous "Celtic Games".. they are as Celtic as Zulues or Thai) were a group of Metal techniques..not matches at all to one DNA as one "Einstein" wrote in this thread... forgetting than no moder country have more R1B than Spain and Portugal. Oppenheimer believes R1B is an haplogroup originated in Spain.. in any case, for sure R1b is higher rate in Spain than in Netherland, Germany, France, Switzerland or Belgium....

And not... Celtic Tribes are not matched to a place a "blood" or a "culture"....and not.. the Hippies take part in "Celtic Games" in 20th and 21st Century ARE NOT CELTS.. they are not Keltoys... not Celt at all (as not Celtic music at all). Cantabrian, Astures, Vacceos, Galician etc etc (all of themn Celtic tribes) didn´t play what the 21st Century named "Celtic music".. as Celtic as Zulu or Hotentote...

Not my dear friends.... FRANCE is not A GERMANIC COUNTRY. (Not Celtic)... France is product of history.... Pre-Roman as Keltoys, Greeks, Romans, Germanic Tribes as Franks, Burgundians.... France is producted by Centuries of evolution, interacctions...marriages, more evolutions etc etc...

You are very categorical. But i agree at whole. Nobody didnt see what is pure Celtic. All is reconsructions of different degree.
 
Likes: martin76
Jan 2014
989
Rus
#65
I don't think anyone is discussing it. It is banned afterall and attempting to discuss it is likely to get the thread closed. Please desist.

If you want to make the point that Keltoi or Galli are ancient names used by the greeks and romans to describe many peoples, not one particular group, there are better ways describe the problem than resorting to genetics. For example, Koch explains the problems well:


"Thus the Celts have been assumed to be (1) all users of the iron age material culture called La Tene for the swiss type site, (2) all speakers of early celtic languages and (3) all groups called Keltoi or Celtae by Greeks and Romans. (The same ancient writers also repeatedly stated the equivalence of Keltoi/Celtae with Galli or Galatae and generaly regarded the former pair as more ancient and correct). Thus anyone of these three symptoms has often been taken to imply the other two and to be adequate to confirm the presence of Celts.

At best the three way modern synthesis is frayed at the edges. La Tene is rare to non existent in areas with well attested ancient celtic languages in South West Ireland, the Iberian peninsular and Anatolia. Greeks or Romans never used the terms Keltoi or Galli to describe the inhabitants of Britain and Ireland and, so far as we know, the inhabitants never applied such labels to themselves."
Arabs called all Europeans as Franks. Obviously they were wrong. But it does not mean that European community were absent. Though it wasnt so entire as Franks community.
 
Likes: authun
#66
France is most definitely a Latin country. Culturally and linguistically, the areas that matter most, France has far more in common with Spain and Italy than it does with Germany, the Netherlands or even the U.K.
 

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
5,950
Spain
#67
So we agree the modern countries are produced by centuries of evolution.. and they are not a "finished photo"... France, as Russia or Spain or Britain or Nigeria are not produced by "a culture" but evolutions different cultures through centuries.
So France is not Germanic... of course, France also have Germanic culture... as roman or Celtic or influenced by Italian Art or Spanish Literature and art) (Moliére, Cezanne, Monet, Manet etc).. but France is France, unique, alone... the result of centuries of evolution.
 

deaf tuner

Ad Honoris
Oct 2013
12,769
Europix
#69
I agree with you in part. Genes are not directly connected to languages, neither to nations. Our modern languages and nations are too historically recent for them to be connected to a specific genetic population or cluster, but genetics can be, and in the last decade or so, has been a extraordinary, and revolutionary, tool for the study of our past...
Technology in itself is "indifferent". A knife is a tool that cuts. Not "indifferent" is the use You make with: a surgeon is saving lives with, a murderer is ending lives with.

Science, knowledge isn't in any way different.

Regardless the historical period, apart writings and/or contemporary written sources nothing tells us the language they spoke. Nor archaeology, nor genetics. Archaeology might tho suggest us their culture, their religion, their social organisation. Genetics will tell us absolutely nothing on all those either.

I keep asking the posters coming recurrently with "genetics": great-grandpa black, great-grandma white. What this tells about the grandson? Is it telling that the grandson is the National Russian Poet Pushkin???
 
Last edited:
Feb 2015
90
south Slavic guy
#70
In this great forum I´ve read some extravagances...kind... were the vikings the first European to be in Nebraska? or.... Was George Washington a black from Niger? Bu this one is on top... France a Germanic Country? Not more than England is a Latin Country.. . Well.. in fact, most of English vocabulary come from Latin (well directly well though other languages)... for sure more than French vocabulary from German language...

To say France is Celtic....if for a heart broken because of laughing.... and Saudi Arabia is a Celtic country too....

Only because USA is one of richest country on Earth (1st EU, 2nd China 3rd USA) is not necessary people suck up one US Irish billionaire to invente the History.... not dear.... Celtic peoples were in many different places (according to Strabo) the core of Celtic tribes were in Extremadura (betweeen modern Portugal and Spain).. he didn´t write the Celtic core was in Paris, Amsterdam, New York or Berlin...

In fact, not celtic core at all... Celtic Tribes (not a language, not a tradition, not a ethnicity..nothing more ridicolous than the famous "Celtic Games".. they are as Celtic as Zulues or Thai) were a group of Metal techniques..not matches at all to one DNA as one "Einstein" wrote in this thread... forgetting than no moder country have more R1B than Spain and Portugal. Oppenheimer believes R1B is an haplogroup originated in Spain.. in any case, for sure R1b is higher rate in Spain than in Netherland, Germany, France, Switzerland or Belgium....

And not... Celtic Tribes are not matched to a place a "blood" or a "culture"....and not.. the Hippies take part in "Celtic Games" in 20th and 21st Century ARE NOT CELTS.. they are not Keltoys... not Celt at all (as not Celtic music at all). Cantabrian, Astures, Vacceos, Galician etc etc (all of themn Celtic tribes) didn´t play what the 21st Century named "Celtic music".. as Celtic as Zulu or Hotentote...

Not my dear friends.... FRANCE is not A GERMANIC COUNTRY. (Not Celtic)... France is product of history.... Pre-Roman as Keltoys, Greeks, Romans, Germanic Tribes as Franks, Burgundians.... France is producted by Centuries of evolution, interacctions...marriages, more evolutions etc etc...
From all this text I understood one thing.

You are from Spain.