Canary Islands

Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
6,459
Portugal
Thanks for the article.

One thing we must agree, I think: “Nevertheless both factions should deliver more concrete evidence, being open for arguments of the other side!” p.148

And here I would underline two words: “concrete evidence”.

And: “A final appeal: Canarian authorities, politicians, universities and archaeologists should at long last opt for a meticulous scientific series of investigations – after over 20 years of stagnation – to stop the loss of monuments and to reduce fruitless discussions, wild speculations, non-scientific influences and a denial of the own valuable past.” p.152

And here I would underline: "...to reduce fruitless discussions, wild speculations, non-scientific influences..."

The article doesnt write About how a ceremony of guanches look like at least a short Explanation one would expect if something "Quote ...are absolutely false".
Here I didn’t understood you. What article you are referring? Can you elaborate on this part?
 
Nov 2019
154
Bylanuelde,Alemannia
Thanks for the article.

One thing we must agree, I think: “Nevertheless both factions should deliver more concrete evidence, being open for arguments of the other side!” p.148

And here I would underline two words: “concrete evidence”.

And: “A final appeal: Canarian authorities, politicians, universities and archaeologists should at long last opt for a meticulous scientific series of investigations – after over 20 years of stagnation – to stop the loss of monuments and to reduce fruitless discussions, wild speculations, non-scientific influences and a denial of the own valuable past.” p.152

And here I would underline: "...to reduce fruitless discussions, wild speculations, non-scientific influences..."
I agree on that but here in the Forum we only can discuss Things the practical part thats upto archeologists and scientist.About the authorities i can not evalute their work but you can find a Video on the Internet About Tourist who are visiting a pyramid in a remote area and destroying it accidently.
Here I didn’t understood you. What article you are referring? Can you elaborate on this part?
i am referring to the article you posted with translation.They wrote that Hyerdahls claim that Guanches used this Pyramids are absolute false and made him a storyteller to crease his Theory.If somethings false you can you expect a hint of detailed reputation against this claim of a cerimonial use of Pyramids.Just calling it asolutefalse you need to write in short why like ...absolute false..because..
 

Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
6,459
Portugal
I agree on that but here in the Forum we only can discuss Things the practical part thats upto archeologists and scientist.About the authorities i can not evalute their work but you can find a Video on the Internet About Tourist who are visiting a pyramid in a remote area and destroying it accidently.


Well, Hans-Joachim Ulbrich in the article that you linked considers that the actual state of affairs promotes, among other things, “fruitless discussions”, “wild speculations”, and “non-scientific influences”.



i am referring to the article you posted with translation.They wrote that Hyerdahls claim that Guanches used this Pyramids are absolute false and made him a storyteller to crease his Theory.If somethings false you can you expect a hint of detailed reputation against this claim of a cerimonial use of Pyramids.Just calling it asolutefalse you need to write in short why like ...absolute false..because..


Sorry, I posted an article in Spanish, made a quick translation since it is mandatory here to post in English translations (the Google translation was even worse than mine), don’t know if you can read in Spanish or not, now I am assuming not, and I am not willing to translate it entirely, but I underlined a passage, the quoted one because it seems to reflect the state of affairs.

Let me put the things in a partial summary of César Esteban’s mentioned article, and why I quoted the passage:

A) Heyerdahl, a known figure, but a bit out of the scientific community paradigm, defends a theory that Egypt and Mesoamerica were linked in Ancient times (hyperdiffusionism);

B) Heyerdahl also defends the pre-Hispanic character of the pyramids (or majanos) of Güímar to include them in his theory;

C) Heyerdahl promoted the ruins site.

D) A study and archaeological excavations were commissioned by Heyerdahl to the Universidad de La Laguna, and financed by the Fundacion Fred Olsen, to whom some of the lands belong; Heyerdahl and some of his personnel also make parallel excavations; The two teams didn’t get along;

F) The published study of the team of the Universidad de La Laguna [Jiménez Gómez y Navarro Mederos, 1998] reached conclusions totally different from Heyerdahl; that the constructions in the site couldn’t be identified previously to the 19th century. Conclusion apparently supported by the 19th century English traveller Olivia Stone;

G) It was created a park at the site, financed again by Fred Olsen, and a Foundation (FERCO) was created coordinated by Heyerdahl and a scientific committee;

H) The park receives many tourists and defends the hyperdiffusionist ideas of Heyerdahl;

I) The visit guide states that team of archaeologists of the Universidad de La Laguna supports Heyerdahl’s thesis;

J) Ergo, the visit guide, is false.

I will clarify and try to improve the translation (just the changed part)

“Pero, quizás, el despropósito más asombroso y serio que podemos ver en todo el parque lo tenemos en la guía de visita que reparten al entrar […].”

Translation:

“But, perhaps, the astonishing and most unreasonable purpose that we can see in all the park is in the visit guide that distribute when we enter […].”

In my current conclusion:

The current situation seems to be quite open to falsification, esoterism, “fruitless discussions”, “wild speculations”, and “non-scientific influences”.
 
Nov 2019
154
Bylanuelde,Alemannia
F) The published study of the team of the Universidad de La Laguna [Jiménez Gómez y Navarro Mederos, 1998] reached conclusions totally different from Heyerdahl; that the constructions in the site couldn’t be identified previously to the 19th century. Conclusion apparently supported by the 19th century English traveller Olivia Stone;
Pliny the Elder, The Natural History, BOOK VI. AN ACCOUNT OF COUNTRIES, NATIONS, SEAS, TOWNS, HAVENS, MOUNTAINS, RIVERS, DISTANCES, AND PEOPLES WHO NOW EXIST, OR FORMERLY EXISTED., CHAP. 37. (32.)?THE FORTUNATE ISLANDS.

There are some authors who think that beyond these are the Fortunate Islands, and some others; the number of which Sebosus gives, as well as the distances, informing us that Junonia is an island seven hundred and fifty miles distant from Gades. He states also that Pluvialia and Capraria are the same distance from Junonia, to the west; and that in Pluvi- alia the only fresh water to be obtained is rain water. He then states that at a distance of two hundred and fifty miles from these, opposite the left of Mauritania, and situate in the direction of the sun at the eighth hour, are the Fortunate Islands, one of which, from its undulating surface, has the name of Invallis, and another that of Planasia, from the peculiarity8 of its appearance. He states also that the circumference of Invallis is three hundred miles, and that trees grow to a height of one hundred and fourteen feet.

Relative to the Fortunate Islands, Juba has ascertained the following facts: that they are situate to the south in nearly a due westerly direction, and at a distance from the Purple Islands of six hundred and twenty-five miles, the sailing being made for two hundred and fifty miles due west, and then three hundred and seventy-five towards the east. He states that the first is called Ombrios, and that it presents no traces of buildings whatever; that among the mountains there is a lake, and some trees, which bear a strong resemblance to giant fennel, and from which water is extracted; that drawn from those that are black is of a bitter taste, but that produced by the white ones is agreeable and good for drinking. He states also that a second island has the name of Junonia, but that it contains nothing beyond a small temple of stone: also that in its vicinity there is another, but smaller, island of the same name, and then another called Capraria, which is infested by multitudes of huge lizards. According to the same author, in sight of these islands is Ninguaria, which has received that name from its perpetual snows; this island abounds also in fogs. The one next to it is Canaria; it contains vast multitudes of dogs of very large size, two of which were brought home to Juba: there are some traces of buildings to be seen here. While all these islands abound in fruit and birds of every kind, this one produces in great numbers the date palm which bears the caryota, also pine nuts. Honey too abounds here, and in the rivers papyrus, and the fish called silurus,15 are found. These islands, however, are greatly annoyed by the putrefying bodies of monsters, which are constantly thrown up by the sea.


Juba witnessed a Temple on the Island coming from a Roman civilisation with complexed Buildings, he would have mentioned how this Temple Looks like in detail if it were an impressive Building.But even the highest in Gumiar measures 12meters if iam correct not that impressive like other pyramids in the world.

Now you have a witness of an ancient Temple If it was a payramid Juba saw very likely.
 
Last edited:
Nov 2019
154
Bylanuelde,Alemannia
Forgotten to Mention that above Quote and source were posted by Frank81https://historum.com/threads/canary-islands.135403/#post-2932033
I just highlighted the important part in color
thanks frank
 

Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
6,459
Portugal
Juba witnessed a Temple on the Island coming from a Roman civilisation with complexed Buildings, he would have mentioned how this Temple Looks like in detail if it were an impressive Building.But even the highest in Gumiar measures 12meters if iam correct not that impressive like other pyramids in the world.

Now you have a witness of an ancient Temple If it was a payramid Juba saw very likely.
So, according to you, the “small temple of stone” and “traces of buildings” that Juba saw, mentioned by Pliny, are "very likely" the pyramids of Güímar in Tenerife?
 
Nov 2019
154
Bylanuelde,Alemannia
So, according to you, the “small temple of stone” and “traces of buildings” that Juba saw, mentioned by Pliny, are "very likely" the pyramids of Güímar in Tenerife?
I didnt say that;the text mentioning These structures on different Island which Island i dont know but by naming it romanic junonia which has a small Island in ist vicinty i guess that he describing Lanzarote which has smaller Island in the North.You can find Pyramides on all Islands by the way.The island where he found Buildings probably seems to be Gran canaria where Juba took some big dogs home.

Please read jubas biography to get sight of his education so that you can rely on his acount of a temple to be a pyramid a la canaries.
 

Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
6,459
Portugal
I didnt say that;the text mentioning These structures on different Island which Island i dont know but by naming it romanic junonia which has a small Island in ist vicinty i guess that he describing Lanzarote which has smaller Island in the North.
Sorry for my misunderstanding.

You can find Pyramides on all Islands by the way.The island where he found Buildings probably seems to be Gran canaria where Juba took some big dogs home.
Pyramides or majanos?

Please read jubas biography to get sight of his education so that you can rely on his acount of a temple to be a pyramid a la canaries.
Didn’t knew that there was a Juba’s biography. I didn’t knew that we had information about him enough to write such a work. Can you point me the name of the author?

***

In the meanwhile, this is probably my last post here in the year of 2019, so: Happy New Year!
 
Nov 2019
154
Bylanuelde,Alemannia
Pyramides or majanos?
I dont know the Special Name of this form of pyramids.


In the meanwhile, this is probably my last post here in the year of 2019, so: Happy New Year!
The first post of the new year;dito.

Didn’t knew that there was a Juba’s biography. I didn’t knew that we had information about him enough to write such a work. Can you point me the name of the author?
I was thinking About a Brief biography which you can find on wiki;a datailed biography i dont know off.But i can come up with another witness to back up the prehispanic Theory of the pyramides.

Quote from the Franzican Frey Juan de Abreu Galindo,Historia de la Conquista de las siete islas Canarias,1632

"These Palmeros worshipped idols, and each prince had a place of worship in his own territory. They piled up many stones to form a pyramid, as high as loose stones can be piled up. They all came to that pile of stones, and there they danced, sang laments, and fought, but they never failed to remember that there was someone in heaven to whom they had to give glory, and who, according to their understanding, was in heaven, they called Abora."

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator
 

Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
6,459
Portugal
I was thinking About a Brief biography which you can find on wiki;a datailed biography i dont know off.But i can come up with another witness to back up the prehispanic Theory of the pyramides.
Juba is mentioned in college for those who study history in Portugal, at least it was in my time. But, yeah, Wipedia helps us to refresh the basics and sometimes has good sources and new developments.

But let us recall that Jubas saw “small temple of stone” and “traces of buildings”, not pyramids. So, with only this, we can’t say that Juba is a witness “to back up the prehispanic Theory of the pyramides.”

Quote from the Franzican Frey Juan de Abreu Galindo,Historia de la Conquista de las siete islas Canarias,1632

"These Palmeros worshipped idols, and each prince had a place of worship in his own territory. They piled up many stones to form a pyramid, as high as loose stones can be piled up. They all came to that pile of stones, and there they danced, sang laments, and fought, but they never failed to remember that there was someone in heaven to whom they had to give glory, and who, according to their understanding, was in heaven, they called Abora."

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator
I have that book. Can you post the original in Castilian, or the reference, so I can find the passage? Many things are lost with automatic translators.