Canary Islands

Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
6,040
Portugal
Suggesting age?
In the previous post I was talking from memory, but the information is from Demetrio Castro Alfin in his book "História de Las Islas Canarias", 1983, p.80:

"El descubrimiento en 1868 del hombre de Cro-Magnon fue seguido casi de inmediato, en 1874, por la identificación de caracteres análogos a los de esa especie en restos humanos procedentes de enterramientos prehistóricos de las Islas."

Google translation:

"The discovery in 1868 of the Cro-Magnon man was followed almost immediately, in 1874, by the identification of characters similar to those of that species in human remains from prehistoric burials of the Islands."

I think that the Cro-Magnon are from 40.000 to 10.000 BP, given or taken. And naturally they arrived to the islands by boats.

Probably there are more recent works avaiable on the theme.

Even if it is curious to note that the indigenous, at the time of the re-discovery by the Europeans, in the 14th century, seemed to have lost the capability to travel to the African continent, and the voyages between the Islands (that often can be seen with a naked eye) were reduced or almost inexistent to the point that there was relevant differences of culture from Island to Island.

Recorded in Hannos Periplus…."Sailing across a great river, Khretes, we came to a lake. This lake had three islands in it, each larger than Kerne. From there, after a day’s sailing, we came to the innermost part of the lake above which rose great mountains, full of savage men dressed in animal skins, who by throwing stones at us prevented us from landing."
Kerne i identify as to be "ile purpur" de Mogador ,the river Khretes is the Souss-river and the lake with three island in it is mistakenly translated because it means the coastalwater with a lesser canary current.
The three Islands in the lake are Lanzarote(and the Little Island north) and Fuerteventura the other Islands are in the last part of the Quote ,the Islands with high Mountains.

You have to consider that there was and is no lake as big as you can sail a day long in it like in the beginnig of the quote .
The identification of most of the places in the Hannos Periplus is quite difficult in objective terms. As any other source from the antiquity. Besides the topography, the coastline, the water bodies changed significantly. And not all that was written can be taken literally.
 
Aug 2011
1,626
Sweden
Old Cro-magnon in this case sounds peculiar. The relationship between them and Guanches is probably not definite.
 

Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
6,040
Portugal
Old Cro-magnon in this case sounds peculiar. The relationship between them and Guanches is probably not definite.
Cro-Magnon in this case was the 19th century terminology. I think is dated.

But yes, the Guanches are probably much later arrivals. In linguistic terms, and on ancestry they were Berbers. Also, let us recall that although usually the term Guanches is used for the Canary indigenous inhabitants in general, pre-Conquest, it is probable that they were solely from Tenerife, and the others had other designations. There were differences from Island to Island.
 

Frank81

Ad Honorem
Feb 2010
5,132
Canary Islands-Spain
19th and early 20th century anthropologists found two "racial" groups in the islands:

-Proto-Mediterranean: slender, taller, dark haired, more robust than typical Mediterranean groups
-Cro-Magnon: robust, shorter, fair haired, closer to European Cro-Magnon of Paleolithic

This was also related to cultural traits on the islands:
-Proto-Mediterranean: higher culture, complex building structures and pottery, they didn't populate all the areas and were newer arrivals
-Cro-Magnon: more primitive culture, cave dealers and crude pottery, they can ben found all through the islands and were older arrivals

This was interpreted in the next way:
-Proto-Mediterranean are related to Capsian culture, they were members of the early Neolithic human stock that came from the east
-Cro-Magnon are related to Ibero-Maurusian culture, they were members of the Paleolithic inhabitants of the Maghreb


All this perspective is terribly outdated, specially the link between materials and races, so it is not used anymore.

Traditional anthropology has a point, however, in the way things happened in stone age Maghreb
 
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Nov 2019
48
Germany
seemed to have lost the capability to travel to the African continent, and the voyages between the Islands (that often can be seen with a naked eye) were reduced or almost inexistent to the point that there was relevant differences of culture from Island to Island.
see#28
The identification of most of the places in the Hannos Periplus is quite difficult in objective terms. As any other source from the antiquity. Besides the topography, the coastline, the water bodies changed significantly. And not all that was written can be taken literally.
It is not that difficult starting with the pillars of heracles you just have to locate remarkable stations of Hannos Pereplus.And i am convinced that the most important station to understand the route of Hanno is to locate Kerne/Cerne.
 

Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
6,040
Portugal
19th and early 20th century anthropologists found two "racial" groups in the islands:

-Proto-Mediterranean: slender, taller, dark haired, more robust than typical Mediterranean groups
-Cro-Magnon: robust, shorter, fair haired, closer to European Cro-Magnon of Paleolithic

This was also related to cultural traits on the islands:
-Proto-Mediterranean: higher culture, complex building structures and pottery, they didn't populate all the areas and were newer arrivals
-Cro-Magnon: more primitive culture, cave dealers and crude pottery, they can ben found all through the islands and were older arrivals

This was interpreted in the next way:
-Proto-Mediterranean are related to Capsian culture, they were members of the early Neolithic human stock that came from the east
-Cro-Magnon are related to Ibero-Maurusian culture, they were members of the Paleolithic inhabitants of the Maghreb

All this perspective is terribly outdated, specially the link between materials and races, so it is not used anymore.

Traditional anthropology has a point, however, in the way things happened in stone age Maghreb
Thanks, Frank! About the Guanches and the pre-conquest Canary Islands is there any recent Academic material online? Like papers, doctoral thesis?

see#28

It is not that difficult starting with the pillars of heracles you just have to locate remarkable stations of Hannos Pereplus.And i am convinced that the most important station to understand the route of Hanno is to locate Kerne/Cerne.
Thanks, I saw the post #28.

And good luck, not only to locate Kerne/Cerne, but also to prove it.
 
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Frank81

Ad Honorem
Feb 2010
5,132
Canary Islands-Spain
Thanks, Frank! About the Guanches and the pre-conquest Canary Islands is there any recent Academic material online? Like papers, doctoral thesis?



Thanks, I saw the post #28.

And good luck, not only to locate Kerne/Cerne, but also to prove it.

There're lot of regular publications every year... mostly in Spanish and restricted to specialists. Genetics always take the most international interest, but the fields studied are much varied:

The last paper on pre-European Canary Islands writing El alfabeto líbico-bereber canario: la distribución geográfica de los signos en el Norte de África y Sáhara / The Canarian Libyco-Berber Alphabet: The Geographical Distribution of Signs in the North of Africa and the Sahara | Springer Bunk | Vegueta: Anuario de la Facultad de Geografía e Historia The most important advance through the last years has been the discovery of two writings: the well known Lybic-Berber, common to all the islands; and the Lybic-Latin or Latino-Canarian, found in Fuerteventura and Lanzarote, which has been successfully translated. Some more research on that https://www.researchgate.net/publication/225725194_The_Libyco-Berber_and_Latino-Canarian_Scripts_and_the_Colonization_of_the_Canary_Islands and a nice exposition of the seven islands petroglyphs http://www.cajacanarias.com/microsites/escrito-en-piedra/EN/LEGADORUPESTRE_EN.pdf

On demography, in Spanish Vista de Un enfrentamiento desigual. Baja demografía y difícil resistencia en la conquista de las islas Canarias / Unequal confrontation. Low demography and difficult resistance in the conquest of the Canary islands

An example in English on pottery https://www.researchgate.net/publication/320491142_Variability_of_lithic_tools_used_in_the_process_of_making_hand-made_pottery_in_Pre-European_Gran_Canaria_Canary_Islands_Spain
 
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Mar 2015
1,456
Yorkshire

A chunk of this is based on DNA evedince but is not contentious in my opinion.

The rest is linguistics and archaeology. Essentially the findings are that the Islands were inhabited by a Berber (North West African) population who arrived in two distinct waves with the outer island remaining quite different in population to the more populated inner islands. The dates are subject to ongoing debate but a neolithic arrival prior to 1000BCE and a secondary one somewhat later (I question why this one would not therefore be calciolithic??).

Apparently there is evidnce of a Roman visitation on on island which did not materialise into occupation around 100BCE.
 
Nov 2019
48
Germany
And good luck, not only to locate Kerne/Cerne, but also to prove it.
It is commonly accepted that the "Kerne " of Hannos Travel is Dakhla or some say it is the Island of Arguin.Both places are Islands assumed from the text to be so.Well if we take a myth as an additional source "Cerne" is located in the Atlas regionhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myrina_(mythology)then it cant be Dakhla or Arguin which are places to be too far from the Atlas to call the People Atlantoi.

If we take the myth of Diodorus as true than Cerne has to be a City with Walls which Myrina has conquered.I think that Hanno knew about the place of Cerne by asking the People of that Area who remember the Story if it is true.So there is a Dilemma either Hanno is wrong by calling it an Island or the Myth is wrong which say it is a City.If the myth of the Amazons was 8000years ago then the sealevel was much lower than today and an Island like "Mogador" could be once be connected with the land.On old Maps Mogador is shown with a reef as landbridge.

Also there are no Archeilogical traces on Dakhla or Arguin whereas Mogador is proving to be settled since neolitique times.If you read the Periplus of Hanno and you read Essaouira as Cerne than it makes sense that he reached the canaries.
 
Nov 2019
48
Germany
They are people who like to sing and dance ,Ahwach is one popular dance style practiced in the atlasregion
And about the old Guanche dance
"It is a Dance of atraction and rejection,in which two rows of dancer men and Woman Standing in front ,approching and leaving each other."(Siemens Hernandez,"La Musica en Canarias"page.27)