Canary Islands

Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
6,040
Portugal
There're lot of regular publications every year... mostly in Spanish and restricted to specialists. Genetics always take the most international interest, but the fields studied are much varied:

The last paper on pre-European Canary Islands writing El alfabeto líbico-bereber canario: la distribución geográfica de los signos en el Norte de África y Sáhara / The Canarian Libyco-Berber Alphabet: The Geographical Distribution of Signs in the North of Africa and the Sahara | Springer Bunk | Vegueta: Anuario de la Facultad de Geografía e Historia The most important advance through the last years has been the discovery of two writings: the well known Lybic-Berber, common to all the islands; and the Lybic-Latin or Latino-Canarian, found in Fuerteventura and Lanzarote, which has been successfully translated. Some more research on that https://www.researchgate.net/publication/225725194_The_Libyco-Berber_and_Latino-Canarian_Scripts_and_the_Colonization_of_the_Canary_Islands and a nice exposition of the seven islands petroglyphs http://www.cajacanarias.com/microsites/escrito-en-piedra/EN/LEGADORUPESTRE_EN.pdf

On demography, in Spanish Vista de Un enfrentamiento desigual. Baja demografía y difícil resistencia en la conquista de las islas Canarias / Unequal confrontation. Low demography and difficult resistance in the conquest of the Canary islands

An example in English on pottery https://www.researchgate.net/publication/320491142_Variability_of_lithic_tools_used_in_the_process_of_making_hand-made_pottery_in_Pre-European_Gran_Canaria_Canary_Islands_Spain
Thanks again Frank, I will take a look.

I am quite fond of the history of the Islands. In some way I connect it with the proto discoveries of Spain and Portugal.

And about the old Guanche dance
"It is a Dance of atraction and rejection,in which two rows of dancer men and Woman Standing in front ,approching and leaving each other."(Siemens Hernandez,"La Musica en Canarias"page.27)
That article is interesting, is avaiable online: https://www.gobiernodecanarias.org/cmsweb/export/sites/educacion/web/_galerias/descargas/contenidos_canarios/musica_en_canarias.pdf
 

Frank81

Ad Honorem
Feb 2010
5,132
Canary Islands-Spain
Thanks again Frank, I will take a look.

I am quite fond of the history of the Islands. In some way I connect it with the proto discoveries of Spain and Portugal.



That article is interesting, is avaiable online: https://www.gobiernodecanarias.org/cmsweb/export/sites/educacion/web/_galerias/descargas/contenidos_canarios/musica_en_canarias.pdf

Good to know, a colleague of mine have studied extensively the relations between Portugal and the Canaries in the 16th-17th centuries Javier Luis Álvarez Santos | Universidade Nova de Lisboa - Academia.edu
 
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Nov 2019
48
Germany
I am quite fond of the history of the Islands. In some way I connect it with the proto discoveries of Spain and Portugal.
As a matter of fact it was the stepping Stone to the "new world" for Spain and Columbus stationed there to find India.
thanks will read it by time

I am still pondering why the Guanche dont use Boats and i have Thesis.I guess it was because they wanted to live that seperate way.I mean on the mainland it was a hard knock life and these Islands where like a paradise and to keep it secret ,the elders prohibited to use boats.But they left a crypted petroglyph for people who can read this ,can reach island .

Sounds like movie where the fictional Floki found Island thinking to be Asgard and took some People with him who belived his Story.
 

Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
6,040
Portugal
Good to know, a colleague of mine have studied extensively the relations between Portugal and the Canaries in the 16th-17th centuries Javier Luis Álvarez Santos | Universidade Nova de Lisboa - Academia.edu
Thanks again Frank. You flood me with "intel" :D

As a matter of fact it was the stepping Stone to the "new world" for Spain and Columbus stationed there to find India.
Indeed. But I was thinking in previous dates: The ability to travel there and the development of the naval skills; the contact with other inhabited world; the profitable slaves raids; the concept of an overseas “Reconquista”… etc.

thanks will read it by time
I tought that you did. It's the article you quoted. I wasn't able to find the sentence, but it can be a translation issue.
 

Frank81

Ad Honorem
Feb 2010
5,132
Canary Islands-Spain
I'm going to use this thread to update any new info coming from the Canary Islands:

This paper of 2016 is about the mummy called "King Artemi". He's a young man, 180 cms high, athletic, richly prepared for death. It used to be considered this was the mummy of King Artemi, who died fighting Jean de Bethencourt in 1405. However, datation of the subject reveals he died in 415-560, he felt from at least 15 metres high and died due to this; and it seem he has past injuries related to falling from high ground




Almost 1,000 years separete him from traditions recovered by Europeans from native accounts in the 15th century: noblemen used to climb to cliffs and precipitous terrains to demonstrate bravery. And in case a noble found himself in dishounor position, they used to jump into the abyss and kill themselves. So, it is speculated this is one of such ritual suicides
 
Nov 2019
48
Germany
And good luck, not only to locate Kerne/Cerne, but also to prove it.
THE PERIPLUS OF HANNO

A VOYAGE OF DISCOVERY DOWN THE WEST AFRICAN COAST, BY A CARTHAGINIAN ADMIRAL OF THE FIFTH CENTURY B. C.
TRANSLATED FROM THE GREEK BY WILFRED H. SCHOFF, a. m. Secretary of the Commercial Museum, Philadelphia
PHILADELPHIA: PUBLISHED BY THE COMMERCIAL MUSEUM 1912
THE VOYAGE OF HANNO, KING OF THE CARTHAGINIANS
To the Libyan regions of the earth beyond the Pillars of Hercules, which he dedicated also in the Temple of Baal, affixing this 1. It pleased the Carthaginians that Hanno should voy- age outside the Pillars of Hercules, and found cities of the Libyphoenicians. And he set forth with sixty ships of fifty oars, and a multitude of men and women, to the number of thirty thousand, and with wheat and other provisions. 2. After passing through the Pillars we went on and sailed for two days' journey beyond, where we founded the first city, which we called Thymiaterium ; it lay in the midst of a great plain. 3. Sailing thence toward the west we came to Solois, a promontory of Libya, bristling with trees. 4. Having set up an altar here to Neptune, we proceeded again, going toward the east for half the day, until we reached a marsh lying no great way from the sea, thickly grown with tall reeds. Here also were elephants and other wild beasts feeding, in great numbers. 5. Going beyond the marsh a day's journey, we setded cities by the sea, which we called Caricus Murus, Gytta, Acra, Melitta and Arambys. 6. Sailing thence we came to the Lixus, a great river flowing from Libya. By it a wandering people, the Lixitas, were pasturing their flocks; with whom we remained some time, becoming friends. 7. Above these folk lived unfriendly ^Ethiopians, dwelling in a land full of wild beasts, and shut off by great mountains, from which they say the Lixus flows, and on the mountains live men of various shapes, cave-dwellers, who, so the Lixitse say, are fleeter of foot than horses. 8. Taking interpreters from them, we sailed twelve '\ ' days toward the south along a desert, turning thence toward ' the east one day's sail. There, within the recess of a bay we found a small island, having a circuit of fifteen stadia; which we settled, and called it Cerne. From our journey we judged it to be situated opposite Carthage ; for the voyage from Carthage to the Pillars and thence to Cerne was the same. 9. Thence, sailing by a great river whose name was Chretes, we came to a lake, which had three islands, larger than Cerne. Running a day's sail beyond these, we came to the end of the lake, above which rose great mountains, peopled by savage men wearing skins of wild beasts, who threw stones at us and prevented us from landing from our ships. 10. Sailing thence, we came to another river, very great and broad, which was full of crocodiles and hippopotami. And then we turned about and went back to Cerne. 11. Thence we sailed toward the south twelve days, fol- lowing the shore, which was peopled by ^Ethiopians who fled from us and would not wait. And their speech the Lixitse who were with us could not understand. 1 2. But on the last day we came to great wooded mountains. The wood of the trees was fragrant, and of various kinds. 13. Sailing around these mountains for two days, we came to an immense opening of the sea, from either side of which there was level ground inland; from which at night we saw iire leaping up on every side at intervals, now greater, now less. 14. Having taken in water there, we sailed along the shore for five days, until we came to a great bay, which our interpreters said was called Horn of the West. In it there was a large island, and within the island a lake of the sea, in which there was another island. Landing there during the day, we saw nothing but forests, but by night many burning fires, and we heard the sound of pipes and cymbals, and the s noise of drums and a great uproar. Then fear possessed us, and the soothsayers commanded us to leave the island. 15. And then quickly sailing forth, we passed by a burn- ing country full of fragrance, from which great torrents of fire flowed down to the sea. But the land could not be come at for the heat. 16. And we sailed along with all speed, being stricken by fear. After a journey of four days, we saw the land at night covered with flames. And in the midst there was one lofty fire, greater than the rest, which seemed to touch the stars. By day this was seen to be a very high mountain, called Chariot of the Gods. 17. Thence, sailing along by the fiery torrents for three days, we came to a bay, called Horn of the South. 18. In the recess of this bay there was an island, like the former one, having a lake, in which there was another island, full of savage men. There were women, too, in even greater number. They had hairy bodies, and the interpreters called them Gorillie. When we pursued them we were unable to take any of the men ; for they all escaped, by climbing the steep places and defending themselves with stones; but we took three of the women, who bit and scratched their leaders, and would not follow us. So we killed them and flayed them, and brought their skins to Carthage. For we did not voyage further, provisions failing us.

I highligted the important parts in blue.
Why i came to the conclusion that Mogador is Cerne is because it tells about a recess well in other translation it is also used for the lake .So the Bay of Kerne/Cerne and the Big Lake have the same shape and concordently the Lake cant be a within the mainland.
Here the Bay of Cerne
Africa, Morocco, Isle de Mogador, Bellin 1764.jpg
Here the Shape of the "lake" with 3 Islands.


marocsahara15.gif
As a sailor you notice that the current after Cerne(second dot upward) along the coast is lower than before and they named this whole costal part up to the canary islands as a "lake".
If you too think that Dakhla is Cerne then Show me the lake with the Islands in it as big for a day sail and with very high Mountains.These high mountains are to found on the canaries (Teide,Gomera and Palama)
 

Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
6,040
Portugal
If you too think that Dakhla is Cerne then Show me the lake with the Islands in it as big for a day sail and with very high Mountains.
I don’t know if Dakhla is Cerne or not. I don’t read Ancient Greek and the Greek text is itself a translation from the Punic. I am not an expert on the theme. I don’t know in deep the periplus, or how it arrived to us, besides the general story.

I know that the coast line changes in 2500 years.

See this, it is a bit old, from 1983, but it traces in general lines how we got the periplus, and shows some of the problems with the text:

The "Periplus of Hanno" in the History and Historiography of Black Africa on JSTOR

The first paragraphs on the pages 57 and 59 are elucidative.

“The Guinea coast…”

and

“To sum up.[…]”
 
Nov 2019
48
Germany
Sorry, but even if the coastline had changes there has to be a "lake" (if you take it literally) with very high mountains and you cant find it along Westafrika except the capverde Islands but this is too far as a mainbase for the phoenicians and there is no lake as big as decribed.

When the Periplus says that the river came from Liyba and the the Troglodytes live in high mountains it is talking about the Atlas mountains .So between the Atlasmountains and the "Lake" with 3 islands and the very high Mountain you`ll find Cerne.
I ask you where after the Atlasmountains you find very high mountains ?i have no doubt the very high mountains is the Teide ...Hanno saw and when he turn back to Cerne ,he turned back to Mogador.




Ps:Near Essaouira 15km south there are old iron,copper mines where the phoenician and the people worked.
 

Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
6,040
Portugal
Sorry, but even if the coastline had changes there has to be a "lake" (if you take it literally) with very high mountains and you cant find it along Westafrika except the capverde Islands but this is too far as a mainbase for the phoenicians and there is no lake as big as decribed.

When the Periplus says that the river came from Liyba and the the Troglodytes live in high mountains it is talking about the Atlas mountains .So between the Atlasmountains and the "Lake" with 3 islands and the very high Mountain you`ll find Cerne.
I ask you where after the Atlasmountains you find very high mountains ?i have no doubt the very high mountains is the Teide ...Hanno saw and when he turn back to Cerne ,he turned back to Mogador.

Ps:Near Essaouira 15km south there are old iron,copper mines where the phoenician and the people worked.
What is your perspective about the pages 57 and 59 that I pointed?