Caste System in India - History & Annihilation

Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,298
New Delhi, India
Prince Arjuna's inclination was not to fight the battle. Lord Krishna's preaching in Gita was to convince him to fight because he was born into the warrior caste, and that it was the sacred duty of such a born person (dharma), and that he must perform that duty no matter what.

If "Not only Geeta but every Hindu texts asks people to look at every thing(including themselves) in objective and rational manner", there wouldn't be a Hindu caste system, and Hindus wouldn't be having a hard time eliminating it; which is the subject of this thread. If nothing is wrong with being a low caste (varna) what is the purpose of this thread?
Yeah sure, that is the message of Gita - Never back out from your duty, whatever the odds may be. It is a precious message. What would you think of a soldier in Indian army who would not want to fight in a declared war between India and any other country (I know, you would like India to loose the war)? Such a solider will be known as a deserter, a traitor. Or a police officer who would not arrest a criminal because the criminal is his relative? That is exactly what Krishna was telling Arjuna.

Well, Hinduism is not a monolith. I am an 'advaitist'. For me what to talk of castes, even animals, vegetation and non-living things too, are none other than Brahman. 'Advaita' does not permit any differentiation, whatsoever. Even in other denominations of Hinduism, as Hansolo and Kamayani have said, there is no differentiation of higher or lower. All 'varnas' are a part of society, only that their obligations/responsibilities are different.
 

Aatreya

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
3,464
USA
This is polar opposite to what Gita says, and what it was written for. Prince Arjuna's inclination was not to fight the battle. Lord Krishna's preaching in Gita was to convince him to fight because he was born into the warrior caste, and that it was the sacred duty of such a born person (dharma), and that he must perform that duty no matter what. One expects certain spinning of the message when it comes to the sensitive topic of Hindu caste system, but spinning it to mean exactly the opposite of what a Hindu text says is totally baseless.

If "Not only Geeta but every Hindu texts asks people to look at every thing(including themselves) in objective and rational manner", there wouldn't be a Hindu caste system, and Hindus wouldn't be having a hard time eliminating it; which is the subject of this thread. If nothing is wrong with being a low caste (varna) what is the purpose of this thread?
Arjuna was not a monk by "nature", and was full of rajas, i.e. activity, which is the nature of Kshatriya. In the battlefield though, Arjuna becomes weak in his mind, and resorts to taking sanyasa to avoid an unpleasant activity of killing his Pitamaha and Guru. The same Arjuna had no trouble killing many a warrior. This momentary vairagya or dispassion is called "markata vairagya" or a fleeting dispassion.

In a modern example, how does it sound if a soldier who has signed up to serve the country runs from the battlefield? This is exactly what Sri Krishna calls "swadharma tyAga", or leaving one's duty. For all the hue and cry you make here about caste system, many of the ancient Rishis were Rajarshis, i.e. Kings who were Rishis. Nobody stopped them from becoming a Rishi as long as they showed a steady dispassion and penance.

ShAstra is not something that is just read, it has to be debated and internalized.
 
Apr 2019
170
India
wouldn't be a Hindu caste system, and Hindus wouldn't be having a hard time eliminating it; which is the subject of this thread. If nothing is wrong with being a low caste (varna) what is the purpose of this thread?
Hindus are trying hard to remove it. Educated youth are already inter-marrying. India has a very huge population, many languages, customs, sects etc. It's not mere caste that we need to give consideration. On top of that we need to take permission of family members. So there are many boundries that need to be demolished. In India you can't enforce people to follow a dictum. We are not China. We are not Europe. It's best that people get motivation from their own understanding of the matter. This is true Indian culture.
Exogamy can be hard for many communitues in India. Like a woman raised in vegetarian rule-abiding Brahmin household can't adjust in a household where pork is relished.

The main purpose of this thread is to know why and when this extreme practice of untouchability started and to what degree it was followed in different households.
 
Oct 2015
1,013
India
This article discusses who should lead the struggle for annihilation of caste. Can leaders belonging to upper caste lead this movement or only Bahujan / Dalits themselves can?

Mahatma Gandhi, in his 1920 speech, had said that it is more for the upper caste to act in this matter and remove caste disabilities, because they are the creator of it.

What are your views?


Upper class Hindus gave caste to us and now they want to be leaders of anti-caste movements
 

Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,298
New Delhi, India
Who does it is not important. It is a fallacy that only one or the other can do it. Ambedkar was a dalit, Narayana Guru was an OBC, Periyar was a kshatriya, Gandhi was a vaishya and Tilak was a brahmin, as long as it gets done. The politicians who are after money will not do it. They will always want/have always wanted the castes to remain.
 
Apr 2019
170
India
To solve the problem we have to understand it's underlying causes:

Caste system in India - Wikipedia


The Kanhaiya dude is a typical 'useful idiot'.
But it's funny that 'dalit' leaders are afraid of 'upper caste' leaders taking over their 'movement' considering real champions of anti-caste movement were brahmins(who have been cleverly ommited from all of dalit propaganda literature).
Whatever. There are too many dalit leaders that they eventually end up fighting among themselves. Funnily most of the crime against dalits are commited by 'dalit' castes themselves. 'Dalit' word has become joke itself. Considering so many rich 'dalit' people are getting hereditary reservations in government jobs. The reservation was supposed to uplift social and economic backward people not to give perks to well to do families for multiple generations.
 
Apr 2019
170
India
Yeah, affirmative action based on economic status and not on castes is the only sane solution.
I think reservation should only be given to one generation of the family. After their upliftment they should leave the space for other downtrodden families.
Best solution would be to have an education revolution in India. We need to educate and employ all of kids because if we won't they will engage themselves in criminal activities and terrorism. The time is to act now.
 
Likes: Aupmanyav

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