Caste System in India - History & Annihilation

Jun 2019
81
Afghanistan originally
Sorry. I forgot I belong to a civilization. You are right 'malechha' are also welcome for discussion but brahmin say not to engage with person of perverse mentality. What should we call this person now. Kaneliputra?
Lol no one care about what you pot bellied brahmins say, we cleared Nalanda, Taxila and Kashmir from brahmins and sold your women as slaves in Bazaars of central Asia.


Your favorite Khilji at Nalanda.

Do you really think we central Asians care about your Indian/Hindi castiest or racist labels ? lool
 

Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,754
New Delhi, India
Never do that to any person. That spoils our own psyche. Have you heard the story of the sadhu who lovingly lifted the scorpion who had stung him and put it outside his cave. The sadhu said, the scorpion did what was natural to it, I have done what is natural to me. :D
 
Oct 2015
1,138
India
There is an interesting point of view in this post. That the caste system was very oppressive but in large parts of India it got disrupted due to Muslim invasions. So the memory of its oppressiveness is forgotten.

However, Kerala was never invaded by Muslims (or may be for extremely short period when Tipu Sultan marched into it). So the caste system continued there unchanged and one see its true effects [during 19th century].

No partition of India
 
Apr 2019
410
India
However, Kerala was never invaded by Muslims (or may be for extremely short period when Tipu Sultan marched into it). So the caste system continued there unchanged and one see its true effects [during 19th century].

No partition of India
This claim is implausible just to whitewash atrocities of Islamic rule in India. Kerala always had very different social system from rest of India.
 
Jan 2019
212
Valencia
Does anyone find the claim that the British were responsible for the caste system to be completely patronising to Indians? It's just such a ridiculous notion that I see being pushed by younger urban Indians who have never experienced the true extent of the caste system and don't even know their own caste. Early travellers to India have noted the existence of caste discrimination as have native poets and writers. We should should actively try to debunk this idea.
 
Oct 2015
1,138
India
Hi Dewal,

I am not able to understand what exactly you are saying. Is it that caste system was benign?

Caste system and associated discrimination existed in India before the British came. It was noticed by Fa-hein (c. 400 AD) and Alberuni (c. 1025 AD). Some examples of it have been quoted by BR Ambedkar in his works. Today also we do find it to have a noticeable presence in rural areas of India and Pakistan.

We certainly can not blame the British for it.

British used its existence to their advantage and that any conqueror or colonizer would do to strengthen his hold. They used it in two ways.

Firstly, it was used in spread of Christianity by telling people that they are discriminated within fold of Hinduism but in their religion all are equal. However, statistically this attempt was not successful because the percentage of converts is low in areas where caste system was prevalent. Conversions were more successful in tribal areas where a large percentage of people embraced Christianity (for example Northeastern states, Jharkhand etc). In Northeastern states of India, the Baptist missionaries, I guess Americans, were working; not British.

Secondly, British used caste system to strengthen divisions among people so that Indian freedom movement against them would remain weak. For this 'backward classes' were given a separate representation in Round Table Conferences (1930s). The final mischief (from Indian POV) was PM Ramsay's 'Communal Award' giving separate electorate to 'backward classes'. Damage intended by Mr Ramsay's was undone by Gandhi by negotiating with Ambedkar.

My take: In adversity lies opportunity. British have managed to highlight the oppression inherent in caste system. This is an opportunity to clean up Hindu society & religion. All said and done, Hindu religion is an open system and adaptable.
 
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kandal

Ad Honorem
Aug 2015
2,783
USA
This claim is implausible just to whitewash atrocities of Islamic rule in India. Kerala always had very different social system from rest of India.
Why do you say, "Kerala always had very different social system from rest of India"? I have never read that in Indian history.

In Kerala Brahmins had the full liberty to impose the caste system based Hindu society and preserve it so the longest in India, uninterrupted and unmolested till recent times. Vedic Hinduism and its laws were implemented to its perfection. Muslim invasions in the rest of India greatly disrupted such Hindu societies, and it got corrupted. Kerala Hindu social system might have appeared different from the rest because of it.
 

Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,754
New Delhi, India
That the caste system was very oppressive but in large parts of India it got disrupted due to Muslim invasions. So the memory of its oppressiveness is forgotten.
Or perhaps there was not as much oppression as has been made out. Since it is forgotten, we can't say much about it.
I come from a place in India, never conquered by Muslims, and Hinduism was practiced to the fullest for more than a thousand years, where castes were meant to be as defined in Manusmrithi. There were no beggar Brahmins. They were next to the Gods, king makers and the law makers.
You are from Kerala, and we know what rules Namboodaris had put in. But Kerla is not the whole of India and things were different elsewhere. There are a lot of Brahmins in other regions of India who are no better economically than beggars.
 
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kandal

Ad Honorem
Aug 2015
2,783
USA
Or perhaps there was not as much oppression as has been made out. Since it is forgotten, we can't say much about it.
People generally remember the good times, it is the bad times they would rather forget.
 
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Apr 2019
410
India
Why do you say, "Kerala always had very different social system from rest of India"? I have never read that in Indian history.

In Kerala Brahmins had the full liberty to impose the caste system based Hindu society and preserve it so the longest in India, uninterrupted and unmolested till recent times. Vedic Hinduism and its laws were implemented to its perfection. Muslim invasions in the rest of India greatly disrupted such Hindu societies, and it got corrupted. Kerala Hindu social system might have appeared different from the rest because of it.
Or maybe you should study the Vedas at the first place to get the gist of the Vedik society and ideals instead of wasting our and your time in this forum.
Veda said this blah blah blah
Manu said that blah blah blah