Christopher Columbus Galician

Jan 2014
44
poio
#31
1. Lucio Marineo Siculo mention to Pietrus Colonus; (it also would help about Gaspar Frutuoso for a easy finding);
marineo seculo, em De rebus Hispaniae memorabilibus Libri XXV (Alcalá, 1530), “Petrum Colonum cum triginta navibus”
L. Marinei Siculi ... Opus de rebus Hispaniae memorabilibus : - page 228

the other source you already know, but I put it anyway. The historians that I have read quote this phrase:

Hiscóa Perestrello, esposa del capitán de la isla de La Graciosa, era cuñada del Pedro Colombo que descubrió el Nuevo Mundo, pues estaba casado con Filippa Moniz Perestrello, hermana de aquélla

but looking for the original source I found this:

mãe do Mestre de Santiago, Dona Ana de Mendonça, e da primeira baronesa de Alvito, e da
mulher de Dom Pedro Colon, que descobriu as Índias de Castela.


Saudades da Terra, book 6 - page 140


2. Other references to Pedro Colon.
Mi principal referencia es el blog de Carlos Fontes, Filorbis

Cristovão Colombo, português ?.Carlos Fontes

In this part it says that the senate of Venice has denounced the attack to one of its ships, in Galicia by a pirate portogalex called Colombo, the source from where he gets this information is "Pedrosa, Fernando - Cristovão Colombo. Corsário em Portugal. 1469-1485. Lisboa. 1989 ":

Em 1470, o Senado de Veneza recebe a notícia que um navio veneziano havia sido apresado "por Colombo e por portugueses", registando o documento: "...dicese esser el corsaro portogalex..." ( "...diz-se que o corsário é português" . O navio fora apresado na Galiza

The author says that between 1470 -1473, there was a Portuguese privateer named Coulão, who had received 22000, for four expeditions (the pirates Guillaume Cazenove and Georges Byssipat were not yet at the service of Portugal ):

Nesta altura, isto é, entre 1470 e 1473, um corsário português chamado "Coulão" recebeu do rei D. Afonso V a fabulosa quantia de 22.000 dobras, por 4 expedições

also he says that between 1469-1485 there are several pirates called, Coulão, coullon, Colom, Colombo. In the service of the kings of Portugal (I believe they were foreign corsairs in the service of Portugal, Colon was the name in Castille):

O problema é que entre 1469 e 1485 foram vários os corsários que ao longo da costa portuguesa e ao serviço dos reis de Portugal usaram o apelido "Coulão", "Cullan", "Colom" ou Colombo.


cristopher columbus.Carlos Fontes

In this part is the name of that corsair under the orders of Alfonso V. Pedro João Coulão,

in this part, the source of the event in Venice is of the same Raccolta Colombina. "Salvagnini, Alberto - Cristoforo Colombo e i corsari Colombo suoi contemporanc, Raccolta Colombiana, parte II, vol. III "
 
Jan 2014
44
poio
#32
Celso de la Riega’s theory of Colon Galician dates back to 1898 and was the first theory to doubt genovista theory. the theory of Pedro Madruga is of 1977, Alfonso Phillipot.

the story begins when "De la Riega", is reading a book of its uncle about the river Lérez, In this book appears the story of a house, called Casa de la Cruz, where the neighbors said that the discoverer had lived but that when he was very young he left the house. Celso de la riega, began to investigate and his uncle had also given him a notarial document about a person called Colón.

With the help of the president of the historical archives of Pontevedra, he will discover up to 11 documents of people called Colón. he will also find a contract of Freight of the ship of Colon in Pontevedra. Then he begins to study his language and realizes that Colón spoke between a mixture of Spanish and Galician (Galician is very similar to Portuguese and at that time Portuguese was practically a dialect of Galician). the last thing he discovered is that many places Columbus gave in America were names the Pontevedra area.









this is the house of cross, and on the front you can see a pirate skull with the name of Juan Colon.




Today they have transformed it into the museum Colón, where they say it was born.

Celso de la riega noticed that in Colon' diary, on December 18, he celebrated the day of la Virgen of Oh, the patron saint of Pontevedra. In Spain she is only the patron saint of Pontevedra and a village of Palencia (Dueñas).
 
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Jan 2014
44
poio
#33
for the repercussion the municipality of Pontevedra creates a commission to interview the neighbors of Portosanto in the area of Poio, where is the house of the cross.
Interview two elders of Portosanto who I believe were over 90 years old both.
- one tells him that one of his neighbors told him that Columbus was born there, that a neighbor had told him, his grandfather had told him.
- the other neighbor said that his grandparents had told him, and his grandparents his relatives.

Celso de la Riega will show his theory in Madrid in 1898. The theory has so much repercussion that the books of Spain and America begin to say that Colon was born in Poio (Pontevedra).
The problem comes when he dies, a history commission is sent from Madrid to study the case.
The two people who come are genovists, Altolaguirre and Oviedo Arce and sponsored by the president of the Royal Galician Academy Manuel Murguía, enemy of Celso de la riega because of the irrigation thinks (and is right) that the Galician origin is Celtic and Murguia says that it is Greek.

This commission will also examine whether Colon' will of 1498, where he says he is from Genoa, is false or not (Today most historians think it is false and there are many reasons).
at that time to copy a document was used "la copista", But it had many limitations. both de la Riega and the copyist, in two documents, to better copy, emphasize the letters in some parts.
Because of that, Oviedo del Arce is going to declare the documents falses and Altolaguirre declares in the commission that the testament of 1498 is true.

the Galician theory is destroyed and the genoese theory gains much strength by the decision of this commission. until 2013, it will not be shown that Celso of the Riega did not falsify the documents.




the Spanish Historical Heritage Institute analyses the documents and reaches this conclusion.

In spite of everything many Galician historians will continue to defend the theory, a Galician historian and an English colonel.

and it will find more documents of people Columbus in Pontevedra, more than 100 documents in total and more places of Galicia that had the same name in the America of the XV-XVI century, will be found relatives of Christopher Columbus living and visiting Pontevedra and above all, a document of the eighteenth century of the more direct descendant of Columbus, the duke of Veragua selling a property a few meters from the house of the cross, which belonged to a lord called Domingo Colón.




this is the document, it is in the museum Colón of Poio.



this is the house of the Puntada of Domingo Colon.





This is an image of the 17th century of Pontevedra, in the background is Pontevedra and to the right at the back, is the port of the Corbaceiras, where the Santa Maria was built. The villages opposite is where Colón was born and where the house of Domingo Colón was also, in that villages the Sotomayors also had properties.



I’ll continue, I still have to answer to:

3. “The Father of Pedro Madruga has Sailors called Colon and Controlled a large Fleet of Ships in Pontevedra.”

4. Source for Pedro Madruga Being a Corsair or Corsair Activities;

In question 3 it will be difficult for me to answer more because here I speculate a little.
 
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Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
5,139
Portugal
#34
marineo seculo, em De rebus Hispaniae memorabilibus Libri XXV (Alcalá, 1530), “Petrum Colonum cum triginta navibus”

L. Marinei Siculi ... Opus de rebus Hispaniae memorabilibus : - page 228

the other source you already know, but I put it anyway. The historians that I have read quote this phrase:

Hiscóa Perestrello, esposa del capitán de la isla de La Graciosa, era cuñada del Pedro Colombo que descubrió el Nuevo Mundo, pues estaba casado con Filippa Moniz Perestrello, hermana de aquélla

but looking for the original source I found this:

mãe do Mestre de Santiago, Dona Ana de Mendonça, e da primeira baronesa de Alvito, e da
mulher de Dom Pedro Colon, que descobriu as Índias de Castela.

Saudades da Terra, book 6 - page 140
Thanks. I must say that I didn’t knew that Siculo had written in Latin. I had a secret hope that even if being a Sicilian he could had written in Castilian. My Latin and my Palaeography were never that good and already saw better days. I will give it a try!

About Gaspar Frutuoso thanks for that link. I really appreciate it. And it is relevant to say the author comments the passage with a footnote revealing an obvious error of Frutuoso: “(235) Se o autor se quere referir a Cristóvão Colombo, há aqui engano, porque este casou com uma filha de Bartolomeu Perestrelo, capitão do Porto Santo.” / “(235) If the author of a mentioning to Cristóvão Colombo, there is an error here, because he married with a daughter of Bartolomeu Perestrelo, captain of Porto Santo.” But the reference, error or not, to the name of “Pedro” seems without doubts.

Mi principal referencia es el blog de Carlos Fontes, Filorbis

Cristovão Colombo, português ?.Carlos Fontes
I always take blogs as history sources with a pit of salt. The thesis that Columbus was Portuguese regained a momentum after a recent publishing of a (quite good) novel by Rodrigues dos Santos. I took a look to the blog and find there some issues. Curiously I previously had considered that some of the “100” reasons that you quoted for Columbus being Galician are often much more indicated to defend that he is Portuguese.

In this part it says that the senate of Venice has denounced the attack to one of its ships, in Galicia by a pirate portogalex called Colombo, the source from where he gets this information is "Pedrosa, Fernando - Cristovão Colombo. Corsário em Portugal. 1469-1485. Lisboa. 1989 ":
Curious, if you read my last sentence of my post #23 that is precisely the author and the book that I mentioned as my major reference. It is important to state that Fernando Pedrosa thesis is that Columbus was a corsair. Fernando Pedrosa doesn’t enter in the question of the nationality of the discoverer. He jokes with some Portuguese nationality thesis for their absurdity. He mainly attacks the traditional thesis of Columbus being a Genoese artisan. Being an artisan doesn’t make sense. And I follow Fernando Pedrosa “doubts” here.

Em 1470, o Senado de Veneza recebe a notícia que um navio veneziano havia sido apresado "por Colombo e por portugueses", registando o documento: "...dicese esser el corsaro portogalex..." ( "...diz-se que o corsário é português" . O navio fora apresado na Galiza

The author says that between 1470 -1473, there was a Portuguese privateer named Coulão, who had received 22000, for four expeditions (the pirates Guillaume Cazenove and Georges Byssipat were not yet at the service of Portugal ):

Nesta altura, isto é, entre 1470 e 1473, um corsário português chamado "Coulão" recebeu do rei D. Afonso V a fabulosa quantia de 22.000 dobras, por 4 expedições

also he says that between 1469-1485 there are several pirates called, Coulão, coullon, Colom, Colombo. In the service of the kings of Portugal (I believe they were foreign corsairs in the service of Portugal, Colon was the name in Castille):

O problema é que entre 1469 e 1485 foram vários os corsários que ao longo da costa portuguesa e ao serviço dos reis de Portugal usaram o apelido "Coulão", "Cullan", "Colom" ou Colombo.
Fernando Pedrosa’s book is small but he made a good research work. Unfortunately as he was a naval officer and not an academic, sometimes he misses a relevant quote. But we should underline that you are mentioning 1 (the Doc #7) of 53 documents that he lists, and in that document the Venetians say that they think that a certain “Columbo” is Portuguese and is working with Portuguese ships. In that list there is also documents that point in other directions, including while discussing that same document, and quoting Palencia, stating that Columbus was from Gascony: “Infestaba el mar de Occidente un pirata llamado Colón, natural de Gascuña…”

By the way, picking his book again, I saw that he also mentions (Doc #31, year 1474) a payment to “Pedro João Cullão”, that I didn’t recalled. It is the one that you are referring about receiving the 22.000 dobras for four expeditions. The document is from 1474 but the payments are from the last 58 years! Fernando Pedrosa identifies “Pedro João Cullão” as Coulon the Older. This because one of Pedrosa’s main assumptions is that Coulon the older isn’t the French Casenove, so he separates the two historical figures. He as a point there. He admits that Coulon the Older, probably a relative of Columbus, that sailed with him since 1469, could in fact be Genoese. Furthermore the chroniclers that the tendency to convert the names to their language and didn’t use the foreign names.

Sorry for asking you about “Pedro Cullão” when I already had a reference!

I think that Fernando Pedrosa gives much credibility to the question of Columbus being a corsair, and his attack to the thesis that Columbus was a Genoese artisan is quite substantiated. On the other of his assumptions, I don’t have a final opinion.

cristopher columbus.Carlos Fontes

In this part is the name of that corsair under the orders of Alfonso V. Pedro João Coulão,

in this part, the source of the event in Venice is of the same Raccolta Colombina. "Salvagnini, Alberto - Cristoforo Colombo e i corsari Colombo suoi contemporanc, Raccolta Colombiana, parte II, vol. III "
Yes, Fernando Pedrosa quotes Alberto Salvagnini often.
 
Jan 2014
44
poio
#35
It’s clear we can’t be sure if he wrote it by mistake or not, In so distant events, it's always difficult. also the two authors have said that Colón was genoese. that Cazenove was not the old one, opens new perspectives. In the documents of the time, appears the pirate Colón, but we don’t know if they always refer to the same. French sources say he is Gascon, Being Gascon, by proximity, could speak or understand a little castilian, He also had a Basque nephew who hid a loot in the fief of Pedro Madruga.


L'Amiral de la Mer Océane: Guillaume de Casenove

This French blog francés says that in the national archives of Paris, appears a Caseneuve that says, "Nothing is known of him, neither before his birth, nor after his death" and the nicknames received are among others "Coulomp", "Couloux", "Coulon", "Coulaux", "Coulpe". It would be something typical of corsairs to hide the identity and change it too.



Cronica de Enrique IV : Palencia, Alfonso Fernández de, 1423-1492 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive - Alfonso de Palencia (1423-1492) . It’s in Spanish, I’m sorry. but you can download it, to search the data and translate it without problems.
Alfonso de Palencia , that you know well, he tells us the events before the battle of San Vicente (another point of view, would be the chronicler Portuguese Rui de Pina).

he speaks of the site of the French army in the Basque city of Fuenterrabía. the French corsair blocked by sea the city. King Ferdinand arrives and saves the city, and the pirate in an accident loses his ship and continues the journey through the Cantabrian after being rescued. the fernando king creates a fleet of 30 ships of the place to capture it , under the commands of Leon of Guevara. The French corsair tries to attack the city of Ribadeo, but they are waiting for him and he has many casualties. and goes to the king of Portugal to ask for ships. Leon de Guevara continues the fight and blocks the city of Pontevedra by sea, when the Archbishop of Santiago had Pedro Madruga locked up in the city.

this part of the book is interesting:
Muy á mal lo llevaron el celtíbero COLÓN y el navarro Gracián; el primero fué á contarle al Rey lo que se había hecho en GALICIA ó lo que hubiera podido hacerse; y el otro permaneció con Pedro de Monzaraz para que si los magnates gallegos contrarios al partido de D. Fernando intentasen alguna novedad en favor de sus amigos, no pudiera navegar muy lejos la galera que en el puerto de Pontevedra se encontraba anclada en un fondeadero peligroso. ...."

calls the pirate colon, celtiberus and mentions a galley anchored in Pontevedra, which would be Portuguese aid. the Galicians opposed to the fernando king, it was mainly Pedro Madruga, all the great Galician nobility and the archbishop, were allies of the fernando king.


In this part he mentions the fleet created by King Ferdinand, which takes Vivero and will end up killing Marshal Pardo of Cela the other great enemy of King Galicia. the text mentions Pedro Alvarez de Sotomayor, and mentions the Portuguese galley and Portuguese soldiers helping it.

Contra su opinión, el esforzado navarro Gracián de Agramonte y algunos valientes vascongados tomaron la villa de Vivero, de donde expulsaron á la mujer de Pero Pardo; se apoderaren del puerto de Bayona y de la villa, fuerte por su situación y defensas y ocupada por el tirano PERÁLVAREZ DE SOTOMAYOR, y se hubiesen hecho dueños de Túy si el capitán Ladrón de Guzmán hubiera tomado con más calor el sitio de la plaza; pero asegurando que los vascongados se engañaban, prefirió libertar á Pontevedra, sujeta á la diócesis compostelana, á otra cualquier empresa necesaria á los gallegos, por haber ocupado de antemano un buen puesto y héchose dueña de la villa la galera portuguesa y numerosa hueste lusitana.


where was, at the moment, Guillaume Cazenove?. He could be helping his allies despite being damaged Normally this the allies do or he would already be in Portugal looking for help. the attack on .Pontevedra, was in summer and ended fast. and I think, the French corsair could pick up Pedro Madruga after or Pedro Madruga went in the Portuguese galley to Portugal (that's an assumption).
because in late July or early August, the Duke of Medina Sidonia attacks Ceuta (he was simulating an attack). I supose, the king needed help at the time. It’s not uncommon to think that , after the attack, of Pontevedra he was going to help him. Rui de Pina says the French corsair helped in Ceuta.
After, the archbishop attack again Pontevedra, I think in October. In this attack, in one night, he made a surprise attack with his cavalry and the archbishop escaped .
They make a truce of several months, until April of the next year. Pedro Madruga makes a will in December and after the episode of the Count of Benavente in La Coruña where he asks for help.



I have answered a part of question 4, but I still have to answer question 3.
 
Jan 2014
44
poio
#36
3. “The father of Pedro Madruga has sailors called Colon and controlled a large fleet of ships in Pontevedra.”;

the assumption I make here, is that if the Father of Madruga was the one who had naval control in Pontevedra and there were people called Colon who were sailors, he could have taken charge of them. I’m a little simplistic here.

in the will of Pedro Madruga’s father, he says, It is an ancient Castilian:

= Yten m.do quela esta mi moger y los mi complidores y testamentarios que tomen quenta con pago por granado y por menudo de las personas q de mi tienen y traen Encomienda y administracion las mis Naaos y Navios y aparejos, y larceas, y cosas dellas asi delas que son mias, y dotros de todos los fretes y otros de maestradgos, y de los emplegos, y portalces, y viages y ganancias y provechos que ganaron e ovieron, y fecieron con las dichas mis naos, y Navios y partes dellos y de qualquer dellos, y gelos deman dar, y resceuir y haver y cobrar para complir, y pagar este mi testamento, o para mis herederos.

Y asi mesmo que poedan facer delas dichas mis Naaos y Navios, y delas parte, o partes que yo en ellos y en cada uno dellos tengo y dela encomienda y administracion dello todo lo que entenderen que cumple a los mis hered.os


In this part of the will, he says to leave his wife and the executors of the will, His vessels, Apparels, riggingsm freights, employments, payments, Dignities of a military order, trips ....

The will is made in Valladolid and dies there, like Christopher Columbus, a small chance.
 
Jan 2014
44
poio
#37
between the documents provided by Celso de la riega there's a Contract of census of the Cofradía (fishing association, As a guild or trade) of San Juan for Bartolomé Colón and A. de Nova.
also, we have the inscription of crossed bones, sign pirate, with the name of Juan Colón in the house, where it is said that colon was born,




this is what is written on the cross. he put this "Juan Colo " And the "n" continues below.




it was written Collon but they erased one L , at that time, there was no difference between writing L and LL, as the Italian. but nowadays the word Collon means testicle.
The writing says this:
Os do cerco de Juan Neto e Juan Colon fixeron esta capella

it says the Cofradía of Juan neto and Juan Colón , they made this chapel. You can see it was a man with money, Juan Colón. With Cristobal Colón also traveled a Juan Colón.
 
Jan 2014
44
poio
#38
there are more documents of person called Colón as belonging to Cofradías. There is also a document of the Father of Colón providing ships for war. On the list almost all nobles help with a boat, he help with two. I have to look for them. but it’s better, start with the most interesting, questions 4 and 5.
I think it is also interesting, to put the relationship of the sons of Colo with Pedro , there are revealing documents. and above all, the king’s favor to the Sotomayor and Teresa of Tavora (cousin of Felipa Moniz), wife of Pedro Madruga
Cristobal Colon himself tried to make Alvaro de Sotomayor a cardinal before he died in 1506 , he did not succeed, Then it tried to obtain a Encomientda for him.
 
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Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
5,139
Portugal
#40
Thanks for your answers and for the two links. Especially the one to the archive.orf to the work of Palencia, Cronica de Enrique IV. I confess that I begun to read it and still didn’t took the right look for the rest of your posts. And don’t be sorry for being in Spanish. I prefer to read Palencia in the Spanish than to read it in a bad English translation.

As for the site in French, I still didn’t take a look at it. Contrary to the Spanish and English, I usually avoid reading in French.

Just a question, how do you, or the authors of your readings, interpret Palencia’s words when he refers to “celtíbero”? About “navarro” we don’t have doubts. In his work he uses also “lusitanians” to refer to the Portuguese. So “celtíbero” would be a Castilian?
 

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