Could a prosperous, non-Bolshevik Russia have eventually had a serious illegal immigration problem?

Apr 2017
1,180
U.S.A.
#12
The U.S. population was pretty complacent about changing demographics before Trump's rise, though.
No it wasn't. There was often backlash about large groups of immigrants. This happened with the Irish during the Civil war and after, with the Germans during WW1, with the Poles between the world wars and Mexicans throughout the 20the century. President Eisenhower actually deported a million Mexicans and banned future Mexican immigration into America for years.
 

Shtajerc

Ad Honorem
Jul 2014
6,544
Lower Styria, Slovenia
#13
Russians would have to change their mentality a lot too. Don't get me wrong, I like Russians, studied their language and culture and in many ways I agree with them. Historically and today still, they are quite xenophobic and often treated their minorities badly. Jews, Poles, Čurkas (Tatars), Caucasians, Ukrainians etc, they all got between a rock and a hard place several times. Immigrants, especially if non-Europeans and non-Christians, would get their fair share of harrassment, I think.
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
18,044
SoCal
#14
No it wasn't. There was often backlash about large groups of immigrants. This happened with the Irish during the Civil war and after, with the Germans during WW1, with the Poles between the world wars and Mexicans throughout the 20the century. President Eisenhower actually deported a million Mexicans and banned future Mexican immigration into America for years.
I meant in the couple of decades before Trump's rise. Obviously there was panic about demographic change at various earlier points in U.S. history.
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
18,044
SoCal
#15
Russians would have to change their mentality a lot too. Don't get me wrong, I like Russians, studied their language and culture and in many ways I agree with them. Historically and today still, they are quite xenophobic and often treated their minorities badly. Jews, Poles, Čurkas (Tatars), Caucasians, Ukrainians etc, they all got between a rock and a hard place several times. Immigrants, especially if non-Europeans and non-Christians, would get their fair share of harrassment, I think.
Russia's attitude on minority issues did improve after the February Revolution, though. For instance, that's when the Pale of Settlement was abolished.

I suspect that a lot of Russian current xenophobia has to do with its Communist legacy. It's also evident in various other ex-Communist Eastern European countries and might very well have the same cause. Anatoly Karlin called this effect the "Soviet freezer" (as a result of it freezing social attitudes in place for several decades):

PEW Confirms “Soviet Freezer” Theory
 

Shtajerc

Ad Honorem
Jul 2014
6,544
Lower Styria, Slovenia
#16
Russia's attitude on minority issues did improve after the February Revolution, though. For instance, that's when the Pale of Settlement was abolished.

I suspect that a lot of Russian current xenophobia has to do with its Communist legacy. It's also evident in various other ex-Communist Eastern European countries and might very well have the same cause. Anatoly Karlin called this effect the "Soviet freezer" (as a result of it freezing social attitudes in place for several decades):

PEW Confirms “Soviet Freezer” Theory
Look at Stalin and how he expelled the Crimean Tatars to Asia. He might not have committed pogroms with Cossacks like the ones the Jews had to suffer in Tsarist times, but he banished whole peoples from their homes, send countless people to gulags etc. He was personally oposed to Jews too.

I doubt today's attitude against Caucasians and Muslims is directly bound to communism or something that stuck around from the past. I think it's there because they see islam as a religion and culture that is foreign and dangerous to them. It can quickly turn anti-Russian (like it can turn against anything that's not muslim, much quicker and easier than Christianity), the threat from Chechen terrorists is still present, most Russians probably aren't used to the outer picture of islam and see it as something alien. Seeing big crowds of muslims pray in the streets of their cities (literally outside on the very streets) won't make the Russians too sympathetic towards them and neither will it most Eastern Europeans for a good reason. I think communism made coexistance easier. All were Soviets or Yugoslavs but foremost communists, no matter ethnicity or religion, which was toned back quite a lot under commy regimes, to various degrees, depending on the ruler and country of course. Communism would have no extremism. You didn't see veiled women in Sarajevo in times of Yugoslavia. There were no wahabites in Bosnia back then. Now it's worse and worse every year. Orthodoxy is pretty much the national Church of Russia after the fall of the iron curtain. Young boys who died through torture of Chechen muslim fighters with big beards and prayer caps are made saints and their icons are being "written" (=painted). Now go coexist in this mess.
 
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Aug 2014
4,355
Australia
#17
Not sur
I meant in the couple of decades before Trump's rise. Obviously there was panic about demographic change at various earlier points in U.S. history.
Unauthorised immigration to the US started to fall just before Obama was elected and continued to fall during his presidency. The number of unauthorized immigrants living in the United States was lower in 2016 than at any time since 2004.
5 facts about illegal immigration in the U.S.
 
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MAGolding

Ad Honorem
Aug 2015
2,774
Chalfont, Pennsylvania
#18
Any country, state, or nation could have a serious problem with illegal immigration if living conditions in that place are sufficiently better to those in other places, or if a lot of people in other countries have other sufficiently strong reasons to want to enter that country illegally.

So basically the original question is meaningless because any country and every county without a serious illegal immigration problem at any specific time could possibly have one in a hypothetical future.
 
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