Could Goryeo (Korea) have gained land through the Mongol Invasion of Japan?

Apr 2017
285
Northern lands
#32
I am just giving the possibilities. Like if I am some king contemplating the invasion & conquest of a neighbouring land, the idea of some past shared ancestry, whether proveable or otherwise, wud be one of my strategies for selling the invasion & conquest to the people whose land is being invaded & conquered. You hv to get some degree of buy in from them, to reduce their resistance to you. Otherwise, you'd be having to defeat & submit not just an army, but an entire nation behind that army.
Remind me never to piss you off.
 
Jun 2012
6,866
Malaysia
#33
I don't think there was any idea on either side of the Tsushima strait about shared ancestry, even though this is technically true.
I wud be inclined to believe that there wud hv been some murky folk legends about a cousin tribe across the sea. I mean, Biblical history as well as European folklore, for example is full of this kind of thing.

The ancient Greeks, for instance, had the legend about Perseus marrying Andromeda of Ethiopia, from which union sprang Perses, whom they then touted as eponymous ancestor of the Persian nation. It wud hv made a good case for selling the Greek conquest of Persia to the lay Persian masses. Whether or not this was actually ever done, I do not know.
 
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Haakbus

Ad Honorem
Aug 2013
3,431
Loserville
#35
I wud be inclined to believe that there wud hv been some murky folk legends about a cousin tribe across the sea. I mean, Biblical history as well as European folklore, for example is full of this kind of thing.

The ancient Greeks, for instance, had the legend about Perseus marrying Andromeda of Ethiopia, from which union sprang Perses, whom they then touted as eponymous ancestor of the Persian nation. It wud hv made a good case for selling the Greek conquest of Persia to the lay Persian masses. Whether or not this was actually ever done, I do not know.

The Koreans were certainly VERY aware of the Japanese and had extensive commercial, political, and and cultural intercourse. I've never seen anything in any old sources suggesting a common ancestry, although archaeologically this is obviously true to a certain extent.
 
Jun 2012
6,866
Malaysia
#36
^
I wud not go so far as to say like, a single, isolate common ancestor tribe for all Koreans & all Japanese, even during Goryeo era. But more like something shared by some Koreans & some Japanese.
 
#37
something shared by some Koreans & some Japanese.
That something is clearly seen in the neolithic archaeological evidence of similar bone ornament types, whale hunting culture, stone tools found in the region encompassing southern Korea, Tsushima, and Kyushu. However, this was too far back from Goryeo times to be any relevance. Gaya had extensive influence on Japan, seen by Gaya iron plate armor found in tombs of Kyushu warlords. But after Silla took over Gaya and Baekje, the link was severed. However, the fall of Baekje led to many Baekje nobility fleeing to Japan to found their own houses, and probably the desire to re-take korea remained throughout the centuries.

So a version of your theory, but in reverse. In fact, it were the Kyushu faction that favored the Korean conquest policy shortly after Meiji Restoration in Japan, which led to a civil war.
 
Feb 2011
1,018
#38
Obviously your map is not the maximum extent of Goryeo either, because it does not include the brief control of Liaodong. Like you said, taking into account the Liaodong control, the map I posted is the maximum extent, albeit not for very long.

Here is an alternative map that only includes the Liaodong acquisition that is more believable.



The previous map was based on an approach to determining Goryeo's extent based on evidence from Ming and Early Joseon records that state Goryeo's northern border to be Gong Heom Jin. Ming records said everything south of Gong Heom Jin 공험진(公嶮鎭) is Korea. "조선 초 ‘용비어천가’, ‘신증동국여지승람’ 등 문헌들도 동북9성은 두만강 이북 700리에 위치했다고 서술했다"
Basically, the Ming records said Goryeo's border was 700 Li North of the Tumen River.

??? ???? ????????? ??, ???? ???


The red dot to the north in the map below is Gong Heom Jin



So if you add the these two maps together you get something similar to the map in the article.


You can't combine the two maps. The Liaodong "occupation" occurs at the end of Goryeo in the middle of the 14th century in the context of the Mongol empire's retreat and power vacuum. The controversy over the position of the nine fortresses concerns events in the early 12th century when Goryeo invaded Jurchen territory and established nine fortresses there, before retreating shortly after due to internal politics. The Jurchens took back the territory long before the 14th century.

Whether the nine fortresses were built in the northeast Korean peninsula, as mainstream scholarship has it, or in Manchuria, as this new revisionist argument has it, Goryeo did not maintain control over them through the 14th century. Thus, combining the two maps to obtain the maximum territorial extent of Goryeo is down right anachronistic. You're talking about two separate, short lived occupations 200 years removed from each other.
 
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#40
Did you miss my reference to the Ming and Early Joseon records of the Goryeo's eastern border being 700 Li North of the Tumen river, and south of Gon Hum Jin? 公嶮鎭. That location is north of the Tumen River. Im assuming that was late Goryeo as well. In fact, Lee Syeonggye was a warlord based on the eastern tip of modern day north korea, and he was part of Goryeo state. But my apologies for not fully translating the article regarding the Liao Goryeo western border.

“중국 철령까지 우리땅”…일제왜곡 극복, 고려국경 찾았다
The news article I linked discusses the border between Goryeo and Liao (khaiten) dynasty. The Liao historical record says, aprok river, spelled 鴨淥, is the border between Liao and Khaiten. In the Liao records, aprok鴨淥 means modern day Liao river 遼河. However, the Japanese historians during occupation instead took aprok 鴨淥 to mean the aprok river between North Korea and China, because it is phonetically similar, but that river is spelled 鴨綠江, a completely different river.

The Thousand Li Wall is also the one lining the Liaomriver. Chinese historians confused the Thousand Li wall to be Goguryeo's string ofmforts, but it was also Goryeo's. there was no archeological evidence of Thousand Li wall in the location it was supppsed to be according to original Japanese historians.

These evidence is difficult to disregard.
 
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