Could ISIS be similar to the Bolsheviks?

antocya

Ad Honorem
May 2012
5,755
Iraq
#63
I heard it's a bit of a complicated issue because it's a Quran so they can't destroy it but it's made from blood so it's unclean. But I thought if you had to destroy a Quran for whatever reason then burning is the way to do it. I've heard of people destroying papers with quotes from the Quran by burning but never an entire Quran so I'm not sure.
 
Dec 2015
3,598
USA
#64
ISIL will go down in history as a drop in the bucket of water, a small group of madmen/terrorists whom believed in bigotry and were opposed by over 1 billion Muslims whom rightfully cited Jihad as reasoning to fight ISIL.

Ideologically speaking ISIL can be compared to the Third Reich, just that ISIL was a drop in the bucket of water compared to the powerhouse of the Third Reich.

The Bolsheviks and Communists in general included minorities unlike that of ISIL. Throughout WW2 because of Communists, many many people in the USSR including Soviet Jews were given a rifle and the chance to fight back against the types of people whom wanted to enslave minorities. While Communists of history did have issues.... Bolsheviks/Communists can not logically be put in the same category as that of ISIL and the Third Reich.

Saddam Hussein stood for equal rights for woman. sure the man had issues but by God that man was beloved by many Iraqi people.

Talk to Iraqis today, in their own words some oppose the legacy of Hussein others support the legacy of Hussein.
 
Jun 2017
2,881
Connecticut
#65
ISIL will go down in history as a drop in the bucket of water, a small group of madmen/terrorists whom believed in bigotry and were opposed by over 1 billion Muslims whom rightfully cited Jihad as reasoning to fight ISIL.

Ideologically speaking ISIL can be compared to the Third Reich, just that ISIL was a drop in the bucket of water compared to the powerhouse of the Third Reich.

The Bolsheviks and Communists in general included minorities unlike that of ISIL. Throughout WW2 because of Communists, many many people in the USSR including Soviet Jews were given a rifle and the chance to fight back against the types of people whom wanted to enslave minorities. While Communists of history did have issues.... Bolsheviks/Communists can not logically be put in the same category as that of ISIL and the Third Reich.

Saddam Hussein stood for equal rights for woman. sure the man had issues but by God that man was beloved by many Iraqi people.

Talk to Iraqis today, in their own words some oppose the legacy of Hussein others support the legacy of Hussein.
ISIS at least in terms of Western ideology can be seen as Fascist because they were trying to recreate a Caliphate. Taking a group(Sunnis) and region that seen better days(to put it mildly), blaming it on others(Shia, West, insert group here) and planning to restore past greatness(the Caliphate) is Fascism though I highly doubt ISIS nor Fascists would see or appreciate that comparison. If there was a racial component to their murdering it would be more like Nazism I'm not sure that there was though and while I'm sure ISIS preferred to kill Shia, I'm under the impression they killed a ton of Sunnis as well. Was their aim to change demographics?

Yeah don't get the Bolshevik link at all. Honestly while I think ISIS is Fascist by European and Western standards I don't think the European ideological scale is really all that applicable here because the Middle East is quite different from Europe.
 
Jun 2016
1,758
Russia
#66
Very stupid question. ISIS is the band of mercenaries hired and supplied by USA and Israel. What have they in common with Communism? The same USA and Israel spread that much lies about Communism that there may be absolutely no doubts.
 
Dec 2015
3,598
USA
#67
ISIS at least in terms of Western ideology can be seen as Fascist because they were trying to recreate a Caliphate. Taking a group(Sunnis) and region that seen better days(to put it mildly), blaming it on others(Shia, West, insert group here) and planning to restore past greatness(the Caliphate) is Fascism though I highly doubt ISIS nor Fascists would see or appreciate that comparison. If there was a racial component to their murdering it would be more like Nazism I'm not sure that there was though and while I'm sure ISIS preferred to kill Shia, I'm under the impression they killed a ton of Sunnis as well. Was their aim to change demographics?

Yeah don't get the Bolshevik link at all. Honestly while I think ISIS is Fascist by European and Western standards I don't think the European ideological scale is really all that applicable here because the Middle East is quite different from Europe.
Well good points. I would say some Communists are similar to ISIL and the Third Reich, that is for example the minority Communists of the WW2 era whom did not want to ally with the USA and UK. Also any Communists of the modern times whom vehemently dislikes the USA, are similar to ISIL members whom themselves vehemently dislike the USA.

To the point about ISIL and the Reich. It has been shown that some German officers during WW2 joined with Muslims in the Islamic prayer. There were some Muslims during the WW2 era that supported the political views of the Reich. So in this sense some Arab Muslims and German Catholics/Protestants of the WW2 era shared political views and even respected each others religion. Modern day Fascists are very few in #, far fewer seemingly compared to the # of ISIL Muslim. While ISIL represents a tiny portion of Muslims, that # is still perhaps in the hundreds of thousands.

The Germans and Arab Muslims of the Axis powers shared a similar political ideology, which can be compared to ISILs political ideology, Jews were automatic targets of the Axis powers, as you bring up Shia Muslims are automatic targets of ISIL. Both the Axis powers of WW2 and ISIL would work to eliminate those of their own religion who disagreed with the ideology.
 
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Jun 2017
2,881
Connecticut
#68
Well good points. I would say some Communists are similar to ISIL and the Third Reich, that is for example the minority Communists of the WW2 era whom did not want to ally with the USA and UK. Also any Communists of the modern times whom vehemently dislikes the USA, are similar to ISIL members whom themselves vehemently dislike the USA.

To the point about ISIL and the Reich. It has been shown that some German officers during WW2 joined with Muslims in the Islamic prayer. There were some Muslims during the WW2 era that supported the political views of the Reich. So in this sense some Arab Muslims and German Catholics/Protestants of the WW2 era shared political views and even respected each others religion. Modern day Fascists are very few in #, far fewer seemingly compared to the # of ISIL Muslim. While ISIL represents a tiny portion of Muslims, that # is still perhaps in the hundreds of thousands.

The Germans and Arab Muslims of the Axis powers shared a similar political ideology, which can be compared to ISILs political ideology, Jews were automatic targets of the Axis powers, as you bring up Shia Muslims are automatic targets of ISIL. Both the Axis powers of WW2 and ISIL would work to eliminate those of their own religion who disagreed with the ideology.
I mean we could find any amount of groups all over the ideological spectrum that hate or oppose the US in some capacity, I don't think that should be seen as connecting ideological tissue for things like being left, right, communist, fascist, Nazi etc, though naturally regimes we've opposed have overwhelmingly been Socialist or Communist. That being said post Cold War the truth of this is a bit less clear.

No there are WAY more Fascists in any one major country than there ever were people in ISIS, especially in the last decade or so. Lots of Fascists don't want to be called Fascist because the name has a stigma the same reason many Nazi's don't want to be called Nazi's. I mean ISIS never really had that many people at all, relative to a country's population anyway. Even a million people is a very tiny population for any country in the modern world much less a "caliphate".

Now you bring up an interesting point with them both targeting particular groups. However what made the Nazi's unique(and Nazi's) is their anxiety over Germany's demographics(Jews, Slavs etc)being the main focus of their ideology rather than just a general racist policy. Lots of groups through history have persecuted and murdered other groups, but not so many have the murder of all other groups as the main centre of their ideology. With ISIS I see the dislike of the Shia as more political seeing the way in Iraq the Shia president had treated them but was the eradication of the Shia ISIS principal goal? I mean they did kill a ton of Sunni? Simply hating and even wanting to kill members of another demographic group is too broad of a criteria to make someone a Nazi, I think it has to be tied to wanting to change a country's demographics as this was the aim of the Nazi's policy's and is usually the aim of similar groups. Was this the goal of ISIS? I don't think it was, think ISIS was more Fascist than Nazi but honestly ISIS shouldn't be even compared to the 19-20th century Western ideological scale.

Also don't think the Jews and Shia being religious groups is connecting tissue either because while Judiasim is a religion, the Nazi's treated the Jews more as a race and were killing the Jews for racist reasons rather than say, the Jews killing Jesus or some religious reason. Nazi's were also killing Christian Slavs and other groups for these same reasons, their crimes were committed on the basis of racism not religious discrimination(Jews were seen as a race by the Nazi's). ISIS specifically targeting Shia on the other hand would have been purely religious. Maybe the Kurds are viewed as a race in the Middle East? I don't know enough about that to comment.
 
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