creacy's decisive battles

Which are most decisive or important?

  • Marathon 490 BC

    Votes: 5 41.7%
  • Syracuse 413 BC

    Votes: 1 8.3%
  • Guagamela 331 BC

    Votes: 4 33.3%
  • Metaurus 207 BC

    Votes: 1 8.3%
  • Teutoberg Forest 9

    Votes: 1 8.3%
  • Chalons 451

    Votes: 1 8.3%
  • Tours 732

    Votes: 2 16.7%
  • Hastings 1066

    Votes: 3 25.0%
  • Orleans 1429

    Votes: 2 16.7%
  • Spanish Armada 1588

    Votes: 2 16.7%
  • Blenheim 1704

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Pultowa 1709

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Saratoga 1777

    Votes: 2 16.7%
  • Valmy 1792

    Votes: 1 8.3%
  • Waterloo 1815

    Votes: 1 8.3%

  • Total voters
    12

betgo

Ad Honorem
Jul 2011
6,108
#1
I thought it would be interesting to discuss the classic 1851 book, which is sometimes criticized as being European, British, and modern centric.
 
Sep 2016
1,127
Georgia
#2
Where is the Battle of Rocroi in 1643 ? If you decided to include Blenheim, then you also should include Rocroi.

Where is the Battle of Salamis ?
 
Feb 2011
1,060
Scotland
#4
I think you might not quite have got the jist- OP is asking for opinions on the decisive battles Listed in Creasys Fifteen Decisive Battles 1851.

He is NOT asking for alternative nominations, of which there are many bucketfuls possible, especially taking into account non-European battles and everything that has happened since 1851!
 
Sep 2017
709
United States
#5
I think you might not quite have got the jist- OP is asking for opinions on the decisive battles Listed in Creasys Fifteen Decisive Battles 1851.

He is NOT asking for alternative nominations, of which there are many bucketfuls possible, especially taking into account non-European battles and everything that has happened since 1851!
Ah, I didn't realize this- my bad!

Though that does raise a question, how come he omitted it?
 
Likes: benzev
Feb 2011
1,060
Scotland
#6
A very good point!! :) However, Creasy has this to say in the preface to his book (It's on Project Guttenberg at Project Guttenberg- Creasy
- Creasy quotes Hallam as saying-

"He says of it, (the Battle of Tours- my italics) that "it may justly be reckoned among those few battles of which a contrary event would have essentially varied the drama of the world in all its subsequent scenes: with Marathon, Arbela, the Metaurus, Chalons, and Leipsic." It was the perusal of this note of Hallam's that first led me to the consideration of my present subject. I certainly differ from that great historian as to the comparative importance of some of the battles which he thus enumerates, and also of some which he omits. It is probable, indeed, that no two historical inquirers would entirely agree in their lists of the Decisive Battles of the World. Different minds will naturally vary in the impressions which particular events make on them; and in the degree of interest with which they watch the career, and reflect on the importance, of different historical personages. But our concurrence in our catalogues is of little moment, provided we learn to look on these great historical events in the spirit which Hallam's observations indicate."

ie, you pays your money and you takes your choice; but he had to have a few differences to Hallam if he wasn't to plagiarise him!
 
Feb 2011
1,060
Scotland
#8
A lot of problems arise from this topic because of the term "decisive". What exactly does it mean? That's why the OP immdiately went off on a tangent.
Creasy quotes Hallam above-

"it may justly be reckoned among those few battles of which a contrary event would have essentially varied the drama of the world in all its subsequent scenes"
 

betgo

Ad Honorem
Jul 2011
6,108
#9
I suppose its OK to discuss Creasey's choices. They do seem northwest Europe oriented. I agree Vienna definitely belongs there. Napoleon had already been defeated by Waterloo, and if he won there, his chances wouldn't have been good once Britain, Austria, and Russia mobilized. Chalons was decisive in a way, but it didn't stop the decline of the Roman Empire.

Creasey's concept is interesting as he picks lopsided battles that changed the course of history.
 
#10
Of all the battles of the Second Punic War, I think that Creasey was right to list the Metaurus. The battle prevented Hasdrubal (by virtue of his death and his army's destruction) from linking up with Hannibal and reviving the momentum of the Carthaginian war effort. Indeed, after that battle, Hannibal ceased doing much of anything and was slowly boxed up in the toe of Italy before being recalled to Africa.

That being said, I'm reluctant to give the battle my vote, as I'm not sure the Carthaginians could have won the Second Punic War anyway.
 

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