Dancing boys of Afghanistan

larkin

Ad Honorem
Sep 2009
3,698
#1
Dancing boys of Afghanistan


6 or 9 month ago a story swept the mainstream media with an expose about boys dressing as girls and then entertaining men with the possibility of sexual encounters.


What is your take on this story?

This not an encouragement for anything remotely explicit. It an
socialological inquiry based on religion and culture.
 
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Shtajerc

Ad Honorem
Jul 2014
6,743
Lower Styria, Slovenia
#2
Idk. I've heard before of Afghan girls dressing as boys to safe the family from shame if the father has no sons. This way they can also work and help support the family financially. When they're old enough to marry the usually stop though. Never heard of the example you gave, but I find it very plausible. Somewhat similar things can be found in other cultures too and across history, it's not that unusual. Certainly would be unacceptable and highly scandalous where I come from though.
 

tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
13,752
#4
If my memory serves me right, Robert Fisk talks about (unexpected) homosexuality in Afghanistan in his book "The great war for civilization"... According to him its rather widespread
 

larkin

Ad Honorem
Sep 2009
3,698
#5
If my memory serves me right, Robert Fisk talks about (unexpected) homosexuality in Afghanistan in his book "The great war for civilization"... According to him its rather widespread
I waited a few days before posting this. It is an appeal take a wider, more intelligent view of what comes over the TV.

What prompted my question was differences between one society and another.
I am happy to be corrected if I get these general descriptions wrong.
I am not approving or disapproving on Afghani culture or Western culture.


In some Islamic societies, especially in a rural setting, women are valued as an asset. Virginity is paramount. They are property and they belong to the family. Marriage can not take place without the approval of both families. The decision is based on alliances, kinship and property. This is also further complicated by a dowry that must be negotiated.


A woman cannot have sex without being in a family sanctioned marriage. In a rural setting she owes reverence to her family and her value is based on her virginity.


Men may not have sex with a woman, outside of marriage. In many Islamic societies this is a often broken law. It is possible for some men, without resources or family support, to go an entire life time without having a sexual encounter with a woman. About 150 years ago, this was acceptable in much of the West. Today our culture is very different but it took a long time. In the West, women's independence and liberation started when young girls went to work in factories. The industrial revolution passed Afghanistan by.


In Islamic culture, homosexuality does not exist. The truth is that homosexual behavior is prevalent to the point of being commonplace. It might be even more commonplace than in the West where a visible gay identity can still have consequences. The primary reason for this is the prohibition of sexual contact with women.


The majority of these males engaging in sex with other males are not homosexual. It is an accommodation for the precocious nature of male sexuality. Like masturbation, it is ignored and treated as a trivial occurrence. In a society that separates men and women, comradeship between males is accepted and unremarkable.


Where's the trouble?


What is not done and what cannot be done in Islamic societies is a declaration of sexually based love or a public declaration of a gay identity. It is not the behavior, it is the political statement that can lead to the gallows. To accept the label of “Gay” is to run the risk of tarring most men as apostates.
This is because it is an affront to religion. It threatens the social structure.
Christian Baptists defend, against all evidence, the Biblical story of creation because not to do so, threatens the basis of their religion.


The Dancing Boys..
Do you have any idea how boring it is to be in a small town in Afghanistan where all unmarried women are off limits? This statement is not to approve or disapprove but to examine the difference between Western cultural values and aspects of Islamic culture.


Even in Afghanistan, the city has all the social ills that we are familiar with but there is a family structure that is much more influential than it is in the West.


In our culture, we live cellular lives as individuals or single parents in rented apartments, We exist in fragile cellular marriages prone to divorce. We defer to the government things that once were the domain of the family. Caring for children and the old was a shared responsibility. Who has a an aging parent in a nursing home? Does witnessing the death of a parent have no value or significance in your life?


The corporate media emphasized the dancing boys story across the entire spectrum and it had the effect of demonizing an entire people for being craven and barbaric.


How does this hold up when you take into account, 149,000 dead, 65,000 of them women and children?
 
Feb 2011
13,609
Perambulating in St James' Park
#6
The homo-erotic debauchery of the Levant and Middle East has been a bit of an in joke in the Western world for quite a while, though it's less common nowadays due to political correctness. There's plenty of sources going all the way back to the Crusaders which suggest that the Arabs took young boys to use in brothels. The French also got quite a rude awakening when they were sodomised by Bedouin after thieir business in Egypt.

"Fear of sodomy, which can be found throughout eighteenth century French literature, served to reinforce European notions of Oriental depravity and no doubt increased the disdain of the troops for the inhabitants of the country"

Napoleon: Path to Power 1769 - 1799. Philip Dwyer: Page 363


Even Errol Flynn's biography from the 30s mentions going to a brothel in Morocco and doing the do with young boys. Perhaps it's a result of a largely conservative society with very repressive views on sexual freedom? As a sidenote, I also believe that sexual repression tends towards violence and religious fervour so that may explain a few other things too.


"The queerest place we were in was in Marrakesh, in French Morocco, a male whorehouse. Marrakesh is a bizarre place anyway. I was under the impression I was going to a bordello. So was Koets. Inside wc found it was all boys. Big rich Arab sheiks and others picked out their boys from a line-up of dancers. The boys would swing their hips and twitch the wrist. They were homos for that section of old Marrakesh who were only interested in young boys. It was all a forthright, blunt exposition of that kind of sexuality in a place approved of in that society. In any other country they would all have been scooped up by the police in no time and carted off to jail. To me that sight was horrible, but, as the saying goes, one man’s meat is another’s j)oison, and we must remember Ancient Greece and the epoch of Pericles, even Socrates."

- My Wicked, Wicked Ways. Errol Flynn. Page 174

With regards to Afghanistan, perhaps their interest in dancing boys goes all the way back to their Greek roots with Alexander?
 

Shtajerc

Ad Honorem
Jul 2014
6,743
Lower Styria, Slovenia
#7
The homo-erotic debauchery of the Levant and Middle East has been a bit of an in joke in the Western world for quite a while, though it's less common nowadays due to political correctness. There's plenty of sources going all the way back to the Crusaders which suggest that the Arabs took young boys to use in brothels. The French also got quite a rude awakening when they were sodomised by Bedouin after thieir business in Egypt.

"Fear of sodomy, which can be found throughout eighteenth century French literature, served to reinforce European notions of Oriental depravity and no doubt increased the disdain of the troops for the inhabitants of the country"

Napoleon: Path to Power 1769 - 1799. Philip Dwyer: Page 363


Even Errol Flynn's biography from the 30s mentions going to a brothel in Morocco and doing the do with young boys. Perhaps it's a result of a largely conservative society with very repressive views on sexual freedom? As a sidenote, I also believe that sexual repression tends towards violence and religious fervour so that may explain a few other things too.


"The queerest place we were in was in Marrakesh, in French Morocco, a male whorehouse. Marrakesh is a bizarre place anyway. I was under the impression I was going to a bordello. So was Koets. Inside wc found it was all boys. Big rich Arab sheiks and others picked out their boys from a line-up of dancers. The boys would swing their hips and twitch the wrist. They were homos for that section of old Marrakesh who were only interested in young boys. It was all a forthright, blunt exposition of that kind of sexuality in a place approved of in that society. In any other country they would all have been scooped up by the police in no time and carted off to jail. To me that sight was horrible, but, as the saying goes, one man’s meat is another’s j)oison, and we must remember Ancient Greece and the epoch of Pericles, even Socrates."

- My Wicked, Wicked Ways. Errol Flynn. Page 174

With regards to Afghanistan, perhaps their interest in dancing boys goes all the way back to their Greek roots with Alexander?
What's with the sexual abuse of TE Lawrence during the war when he was caught and beaten by the Turks?
 

larkin

Ad Honorem
Sep 2009
3,698
#8
What's with the sexual abuse of TE Lawrence during the war when he was caught and beaten by the Turks?
In prison culture here in the US, many people mistakenly believe that the prison predators are homosexuals. It is quite the opposite. These are men looking for sexual outlet and they go for the youngest and weakest.

The point I am trying to stress is that the aggressive nature of the male sex makes total repression almost impossible. What repression does is cultivate secrecy and hidden sub-cultures. Even in Islamic societies, accommodations are made provided they are kept quiet.

Yes Marrakesh, like Amsterdam, is all about the tourist. Both cities throw out the welcome mat in exchange for currency. Morocco relied on tales of debauchery as a form of advertisement. Lord Rochester, your comments are not inaccurate but they are the parlor view of an outsider.

As for T. E. Lawrence. He was a suspicious white man wandering in Mesopotamia during a war.. Remind me, why did they release him, or did he escape?
 

larkin

Ad Honorem
Sep 2009
3,698
#9
With regards to Afghanistan, perhaps their interest in dancing boys goes all the way back to their Greek roots with Alexander?
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]I do not think that sexual impulses are constructs. I believe that they are human characteristics and variations can occur under certain conditions. The human species makes procreation paramount and anything that distracts is usually condemned by the culture at large. But variations persist. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isolated Japan had no contact with the West until 1850 and yet the Shogun has a history similar to the classical Greeks. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Your Lordship, I will say that your take is more interesting
[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [/FONT]
 
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