dating of Indian texts

Apr 2019
406
India
#11
Yes, Ramayana and Mahabharata are old indigenous folk tales with no connection to Vedas. The connections were inserted later.
Amazed !
Now it proves you haven't read Mahabharata and Vedas.
There is a king Rama and his clan Ikshvaku(this clan is named after 'sugercane' so give rest to your Arctic fantasies) in Rigveda. Great ancestor Manu was the progenitor of this clan. Same way Yadus are present in Vedas but they were enemy of the Bharatas and in Mahbharata the Kurus(who claim to be the decendents of Bharatas) had been decimated and replaced by Yadavas so yes Mahabharata's core narrative is political. These Kurus are supposed to have their origin in Uttara Kuru which was probably in the north of Kashmir/center Asia so they were not exactly 'indegenous' as you claim them to be. Same way I doubt that real Rama was in Ayodhya. Instead those Ikshavakus could have set their kingdom at the bank of Harayu river in Afganistan. Yadus have been described as southerners(as compared to other Vedic clans) and we have archeological site of Dwarka which proves that this city was not just a myth. A son of Devaki named Krishna has been mentioned in Chandogya Upnishada and it's alright Mahabharata is a post-Vedic narrative. So here goes your 'indigenous' theory to the gutter.
Both Mahabharata and Ramayana are full of Vedic themes. Moreoevr Mahabharata's side stories about the Vedic characters are not actually insertion but the degradation of these historic figures. Yes Mahabahrata has been lowkey maligning many ancient rishsi. Their stories are different in Vedas.
 

Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,572
New Delhi, India
#12
That is what I said. The connections were forged during and after assimilation. Did I say that Kurus, Bharatas and Tritsus were indigenous? They were from Central Asia and before that from .. (Kurgan region) .. and before that from .. (where else) Sub-Arctic region. Such is the Indo-European story. :D
Yes, truth, sometimes, is stranger than fiction. Would you expect Ashwins to be worshiped in Lithuania (Ašvieniai)?

Two horses at the top of the house.
 
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Aatreya

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
3,543
USA
#14
That is what I said. The connections were forged during and after assimilation. Did I say that Kurus, Bharatas and Tritsus were indigenous? They were from Central Asia and before that from .. (Kurgan region) .. and before that from .. (where else) Sub-Arctic region. Such is the Indo-European story. :D
Yes, truth, sometimes, is stranger than fiction. Would you expect Ashwins to be worshiped in Lithuania (Ašvieniai)?

Two horses at the top of the house.
There is nothing strange about Ashwins worshipped in Lithuania. That is the culture and religion that spread from India. You can recount all the European stories you want but the fact is that the culture spread from India.
 

Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,572
New Delhi, India
#15
There is nothing strange about Ashwins worshipped in Lithuania. That is the culture and religion that spread from India. You can recount all the European stories you want but the fact is that the culture spread from India.
:clap::clap:! The great Indian mythical, linguistic and cultural tsunami, going as far as Ireland and Iceland. o_O:rolleyes::lol::zany:
 
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Apr 2019
406
India
#16
That is what I said. The connections were forged during and after assimilation. Did I say that Kurus, Bharatas and Tritsus were indigenous? They were from Central Asia and before that from .. (Kurgan region) .. and before that from .. (where else) Sub-Arctic region. Such is the Indo-European story. :D
Yes, truth, sometimes, is stranger than fiction. Would you expect Ashwins to be worshiped in Lithuania (Ašvieniai)?

Two horses at the top of the house.
Ha ha
I knew you would pick central Asian bit from my comment. That was a bait !
Remember actual Kuru male lineage had been disrupted many generations earlier than our heroes. Ever wondered why did queens like Ambika, Ambalika, Kunti and Madri got pregnant through 'niyoga' while they could've simply adopted several children. In Vedic religion/Hinduism adoption is totally legitimate method for acquiring heir.

But you have conveniently refused to give attention to other details like origin of Ikshvakus. Mass exodus of ancients towards north with great progenitor Manu.
Most of the tribes mentioned in Vedas were Vedic including the Yadus. They too had their own rishis/poets/priests and sacred rites. Moreover these tribes and dasas were also friendly with Bharatas many times. But there was a political turmoil which divided these tribes in two groups and resulted in migration of several tribes towards west. The battle of Mahbharata maybe inspired by the actual battle in which every king had to pick up a side and fight.
In the end it's not Vedas which were getting validation from the epics but it was other way around. The epics(specially Mahabharata) were trying to get validation of the Vedas as well as trying to break-up the Vedic religion by introducing new practices and by maligning Vedic deties and rishis.
 

Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,572
New Delhi, India
#18
Ever wondered why did queens like Ambika, Ambalika, Kunti and Madri got pregnant through 'niyoga' while they could've simply adopted several children. In Vedic religion/Hinduism adoption is totally legitimate method for acquiring heir.
Moreover these tribes and dasas were also friendly with Bharatas many times.
The epics(specially Mahabharata) were trying to get validation of the Vedas as well as trying to break-up the Vedic religion by introducing new practices and by maligning Vedic deties and rishis.
No need to wonder. I do not think that was done in Vedic period, but in Mahabharata times, it was permissible.
Dasas and dasyus were never friends with Aryans.
How could the epics get validation of Vedas? Epics were written much later. And the Gods and Goddesses of epics were not the Vedic deities, they were indigenous. Though assimilation had brought mixing. By the time of writing Srimad Bhagawat Purana, there was complete assimilation (sometime around late first millennium). Vishnu had become the Supreme God for a section of people.
 
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Apr 2019
406
India
#19
No need to wonder. I do not think that was done in Vedic period, but in Mahabharata times, it was permissible.
Dasas and dasyus were never friends with Aryans.
How could the epics get validation of Vedas? Epics were written much later. And the Gods and Goddesses of epics were not the Vedic deities, they were indigenous. Though assimilation had brought mixing. By the time of writing Srimad Bhagawat Purana, there was complete assimilation (sometime around late first millennium). Vishnu had become the Supreme God for a section of people.
Ha ha ha.... It's bad idea to discuss this topic with you because you become as much forgetful of using your common sense as Hanumana of his siddhis. But I'm no Jambavana so let me rest a bit.
Digression: What is Indian army doing in Kashmir?
 

Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,572
New Delhi, India
#20
I'm still waiting for archeological proof that you are going to provide for supposed 'Aryan' migration.
Don't wait. Check Indo-
European Migrations in Wikipedia and the related links.

IE.svg.png
A map showing the approximate present-day distribution of the Indo-European branches within their homelands of Europe and Asia. The following legend is given in the chronological order of the earliest surviving written attestations of each branch:
Hellenic (Greek) Indo-Iranian Italic (Romance) Celtic Germanic Armenian Baltic Slavic Albanian
Digression: What is Indian army doing in Kashmir?
We will know soon. Indian Army has killed seven members of their Border Action Team (Surgical strike unit). We have additional troops in Kashmir. Tourists and pilgrims have been asked to leave. 15 August will see Indian flag in all Panchayats of Kashmir. Both, the BJP and the Congress have asked their Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha members to be compulsorily present from tomorrow up to August 7. So, whatever is in the mill, it should come out soon.
 
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