Death of Edward II of England in 1327

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
19,944
SoCal
#11
That's definitely what the poker story was about. His young lovers had tremendous political power -- same thing happened with James I. His wife and her lover invaded England and took control. Presumably they did away with Edward II somehow, but it could have been natural causes.

Supporters of his son Edward III eventually captured Edward II's wife and Mortimer. The young king took power, Mortimer was executed, and Isabela made virtually a prisoner.
What happened with James I?

Also, was Piers Gaveston's influence positive or negative?
 

betgo

Ad Honorem
Jul 2011
6,212
#12
What happened with James I?

Also, was Piers Gaveston's influence positive or negative?
It was considered very negative. Edward II had a later young "favorite" named Dispenser, who, with his father, had tremendous political power. Father and son were executed when Isabela and Mortimer took over. Isabela had support from the aristocracy, as many were unhappy with the Dispensers.

James I also gave young apparent lovers great political power. One was made Duke of Buckingham. Buckingham was practically running the country when James I was dying. Buckingham's power continued under Charles I, when he incompetently led disasterous military expeditions. It only ended when he was assasinatied.
 

betgo

Ad Honorem
Jul 2011
6,212
#14
Each time people want to eliminate someone important,they invent stories,Edward II and his friend,Marie Antoinette and her son etc...
It wasn't stories, but some of it may have been exagerated. Like the stories about how the king gave the queen's jewels to Gaveston. That implied a lot, at a time when it wasn't acceptable to directly talk about homosexuality. Edward II was a weak king who allowed his lovers to have way too much political power.
 
May 2017
1,012
France
#15
In France we told the same type of things when the captain de Vitry killed Concini.You cannot imagine what was invented about his wife,the Galigaï….
When you have a population analfabet at 95 %,it is very easy to manipulate everybody with inventions.The history is witten by the victorious but also by the best speakers.
 

betgo

Ad Honorem
Jul 2011
6,212
#16
Edward II gave all sort of political power to his young favorites, first Gaveston and then Dispenser. He was estranged from his wife, who led a successful rebellion against him with her apparent lover. It wasn't that easy to depose a king, and Isabella got support for some reason.

I agree that accusations of homosexuality, incest, etc. were often made against those deposed, executed, etc. However, in this case, Edward's sex life and sexuality seem central to the problems he got into.
 
Feb 2017
211
Devon, UK
#17
It's odd, there's probably less evidence about Edward II's sexuality than there is for other monarchs (such as James I) and yet he's become the gay icon, largely thanks to a more than likely fabricated story about the manner of his death.

Isabella and Edward certainly became estranged, but they had five children before that happened and Edward sired at least one bastard that was known about. It suggests a relationship that was, at least initially, much closer than the dynastic need to produce an 'heir and a spare' and, that whatever Edward's sexuality was, it was more complex than the 'gay martyr' narrative that's entered into the realm of 'common knowledge'.
 
May 2017
1,012
France
#18
We must not forget than 20 years before ,the father of Isabelle de France,the king Philippe IV le Bel had exterminated the Temple Order with a monstruous invention of collectice special practices.In fact,with the defeats of Palestine, the Temple Order became an enormous bank,whose fortune interested the kings of France,England and Spain...Isabelle is really the daughter of his father...
 

betgo

Ad Honorem
Jul 2011
6,212
#19
I doubt all of that about the favorites who were lovers was made up. I read in contemporary literature that most cardinals had boy lovers as well as mistresses. Not sure if it was really the main reason Edward was deposed. He doesn't seem to have been an effective king, unless that was also made up.
 
Apr 2014
161
Liverpool, England
#20
A mediaeval king and his favourites could do pretty much anything they liked in their private lives so long as they exercised a modicum of discretion. Edward II and his favourites exercised no discretion at all.

It has been pointed out that the French were never slow to pass judgement on English kings, but they do not seem to have detected any scandal surrounding Edward's sex life - one reason for not being too quick to categorise his favourites as lovers.
 

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