Death penalties way worse than crucification

Maribat

Ad Honorem
Mar 2012
4,973
#61
Oddly, it is the Russians who seem to have the most humane method of execution (unless they've changed it recent years) The victim i snot told in advance. He walks behind a single guard, and enters an empty cell. He is told not to look around. The guar then shoots him, once, behind the ear, with a pistol,
There's no death penalty in Russia since 1997
 
Oct 2018
1,209
Adelaide south Australia
#62
Depends on your outlook doesn't it?

Prior to today's nicey nicey times there is a case that quick clean death is no punishment for someone who has caused immense suffering to others.
The punishment is the loss of their life. Death in such circumstances would be almost an anticlimax to months, or in the US, years of suffering in anticipation.

I was anti death penalty from about age 12 to 40. That view was largely formed by the execution of Caryl Chessmanin the US, in 1960.;The guy had been on death row for 11 years, then they executed him in the gas chamber That was the first time in my life that I felt moral outrage. Today I am in favour of the death penalty, with only one caveat: The authorities doing the execution must be able to guarantee that all such convictions are safe.
 

VHS

Ad Honorem
Dec 2015
4,291
Brassicaland
#63
I wouldn't like to argue on quantifying suffering. That is a thing only the sufferers would truly know.

Death by crucifixion could take hours or days. The Roman executioners were very skilled. There is no doubt that other methods mentioned are also horrible.

Today we have the obscenity of death by lethal injection. These executions are apparently very painful; even if done properly--an injection is given to paralyse the muscles, so suffering will not show outwardly.

I've longed believed that executions should be held in football stadiums, at half time, and televised by cable. I have no doubt that it would be huge hit. Of course, to maintain viewer interest the Roman idea of the punishment matching the crime could be revived. Eg arsonists burned alive, rapists sodomised by a donkey, that kind of thing.


Oddly, it is the Russians who seem to have the most humane method of execution (unless they've changed it recent years) The victim i snot told in advance. He walks behind a single guard, and enters an empty cell. He is told not to look around. The guar then shoots him, once, behind the ear, with a pistol,

I came across this while looking up Russia's most prolific serial killer ,Andrei Chikotillo. There is a fascinating TV film "Citizen X"

Andrei Romanovich Chikatilo (Russian: Андре́й Рома́нович Чикати́ло; Ukrainian: Андрій Романович Чикатило; 16 October 1936 – 14 February 1994) was a Soviet serial killer, nicknamed the Butcher of Rostov, the Red Ripper, and the Rostov Ripper, who sexually assaulted, murdered, and mutilated at least 52 women and children between 1978 and 1990 in the Russian SFSR, the Ukrainian SSR, and the Uzbek SSR. Chikatilo confessed to 56 murders and was tried for 53 of these killings in April 1992. He was convicted and sentenced to death for 52 of these murders in October 1992 and executed in February 1994.

Andrei Chikatilo - Wikipedia
The "anti-death penalty" people insist that death will not bring these people back; then, will death penalty save future victims from harms or deaths?

The punishment is the loss of their life. Death in such circumstances would be almost an anticlimax to months, or in the US, years of suffering in anticipation.

I was anti death penalty from about age 12 to 40. That view was largely formed by the execution of Caryl Chessmanin the US, in 1960.;The guy had been on death row for 11 years, then they executed him in the gas chamber That was the first time in my life that I felt moral outrage. Today I am in favour of the death penalty, with only one caveat: The authorities doing the execution must be able to guarantee that all such convictions are safe.
Both prison terms and death penalty are irreversible errors; extra cares should be taken to punish the right people.
Another aspect is: the certainty of punishment is even more important than the severity.
 
Oct 2018
1,209
Adelaide south Australia
#64
@VHS

Yes ,a person has lost the years in prison, but unlike the innocent man executed, still has the capacity for some kind of life outside of prison. .

Certainty of punishment?. I agree completely ,in principle.. Umm, could you let me have a small list, of say six countries, where such a certainty exists? Perhaps you could also explain the basis for such findings?.

In case you missed it, I practical terms, I am one of the 'ant death penalty people',.--No country can guarantee the 100% safe conviction rate I demand before supporting the death penalty..
 
Last edited:
Nov 2010
7,404
Cornwall
#65
@VHS

Yes ,a person has lost the years in prison, but unlike the innocent man executed, still has the capacity for some kind of life outside of prison. .

Certainty of punishment?. I agree completely ,in principle.. Umm, could you let me have a small list, of say six countries, where such a certainty exists? Perhaps you could also explain the basis for such findings?.

In case you missed it, I practical terms, I am one of the 'ant death penalty people',.--No country can guarantee the 100% safe conviction rate I demand before supporting the death penalty..
It's to do with case, not the country.

As for some kind of life outside prison - some aren't entitled to it but these days seem to get it!
 
Jan 2019
8
SC Pennsylvania
#66
Due to the popularization of Christianity, many people think crucification was a cruel enough punishment.
But wait! We had invented death penalties way worse than crucification by many folds.
The slicing of Hypatia might come to light; if Jesus really died by slicing and resurrected, some may shout "it sounds so much like Cell and Majin Buu in Dragonball Z".
The Chinese came with worst slicing: The record was to slice someone into 3000+ pieces.
Being eaten alive by rodents was pretty awful as well.
There were so many forms of death penalties that could make crucification relative "minor" in cruelty.
Were crucifixions performed on the 'big T' cross or on the 'X'?
 
Oct 2018
1,209
Adelaide south Australia
#67
Were crucifixions performed on the 'big T' cross or on the 'X'?
There was no set way to crucify a person ,I guess it depended on things such as time available and on how long they wanted a person to live,. We actually don't know fora fact exactly how Jesus was crucified, and I'm not sure it matters; he suffered extremely. There are records of people surviving for up to 3 days. I also suspect that they did not always use nails; these were of course handmade, expensive, and reused. I've only head of ONE case where a skeleton was found with a large nail in his foot , suggesting he had been crucified.

I think making claims about the relative extent people suffered is perhaps being a little too pedantic. I'm not even sure if relative suffering can be measured, especially after it reaches an extreme level.

Crucifixion had been around for a long time. I think the Romans lifted it from the Persians. It was seen as an especially horrific way to die and the most humiliating. As such, a Roman citizen could not be crucified. It was used mainly on slaves, and foreigners like Jesus, condemned for sedition.

Below is a bit explaining the suffering Jesus would have endured, from a physicians view. The explanation is thorough, noting that Jesus' suffering began with the blood sweating in the Garden of Gethsemane

The left foot is now pressed backward against the right foot, and with both feet extended, toes down, a nail is driven through the arch of each, leaving the knees moderately flexed. The Victim is now crucified. As He slowly sags down with more weight on the nails in the wrists, excruciating pain shoots along the fingers and up the arms to explode in the brain — the nails in the wrists are putting pressure on the median nerves.


As He pushes Himself upward to avoid this stretching torment, He places His full weight on the nail through His feet. Again there is the searing agony of the nail tearing through the nerves between the metatarsal bones of the feet. At this point, as the arms fatigue, great waves of cramps sweep over the muscles, knotting them in deep, relentless, throbbing pain. With these cramps comes the inability to push Himself upward. Hanging by his arms, the pectoral muscles are paralyzed and the intercostal muscles are unable to act. Air can be drawn into the lungs, but cannot be exhaled. Jesus fights to raise Himself in order to get even one short breath. Finally, carbon dioxide builds up in the lungs and in the blood stream and the cramps partially subside. Spasmodically, he is able to push Himself upward to exhale and bring in the life-giving oxygen.

A Physician's View of the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ