Decline and Fall of the British Empire

Sep 2015
1,754
England
I read your previous statements post Bose military operations as the decisive moment, not one of several factors,

The Labour Party pretty much favour indepednce for India in the 1930s.
Nope. You're missing basic historical knowledge, which you would think ought to be pretty fundamental, for any sensible discussion.

(see Government of India Act 1919).
 
Sep 2015
1,754
England
Actually, contemporary recording of those societies for historic purposes and so on, only started with the colonial rulers. Much of the pre-colonial history were lost to obscurity because those peoples themselves never cared to record it for most part. It was the colonial rulers who undertook the effort to discover those lost histories.

What were "the losses" as a the result of colonialism, that one would want to bring back and re-implement? Could you point out a few?
Land ownership by the older order, of rulers and zamindars is one. A whole load of other happening people suddenly had a chance.
Arbitrary rule.

Mughal pre-eminence over marathas rulers. Probably?
 

royal744

Ad Honoris
Jul 2013
10,335
San Antonio, Tx
It's not just double edged, it's downright paradoxical.

Since the pre-colonial actual situation it lost to the degree it is, modern post-colonial societies find themselves cobbling together all kinds of simulacra of what is supposed to be traditional, updated for today's purposes. How well this matches something pre-colonial to a large part of downright untestable. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. (Mileage will vary, some might getting it more right than some others. Some have more info to marshall, but overall there is a deficit.)

This situaion also drives a big chunk of western academic so-called "post-colonial studies". For lack of actual historic documentation, sheer theory is allowed to make up the difference. (From professional historians' point of view a lot of dedicated PC-studies often relay on rather flimsy actual history.)

All of which is due to the "post-colonial situation" being real.
I cannot claim expertise about Indian history - the place is just too big and varied with too many different sub-cultures to be able to pigeon-hole Indians into a “one size fits all” container. In some ways, India has a variety of sub-cultures passing as a single, modern country, not totally unlike the large variety of sub-cultures that make up the United States. But in fact they are very different places and peoples, however. In the case of India, these sub-cultures co-existed for centuries on the same land mass. In the case of the USA the variety of people had to be imported; in India, “they” had already been there forever. (Except for more recent arrivals such as the Parsees and the Muslims).

With or without the British, India would have eventually had to deal with the European “west”. It is difficult for me to imagine an India (as a single unit) if the British had never gone there. Indians themselves would have had to unite the sub-continent which might have gone a bit differently. How differently, I can’t guess.

Perhaps the greatest “gift” that the British left the Indians (aside from the English language - no small thing) was a reasonably united and “defined” geography. This was a convenience for the British in terms of governance but it worked out well for the Indians except for those who militated for a separate Moslem states.
 
Last edited:
Feb 2011
1,035
Scotland
Perhaps the greatest “gift” that the British left the Indians (aside from the English language - no small thing) was a reasonably united and “defined” geography. This was a convenience for the British in terms of governance but it worked out well for the Indians except for those who militated for a separate Moslem states.
And Cricket!
 

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
8,787
Nope. You're missing basic historical knowledge, which you would think ought to be pretty fundamental, for any sensible discussion.

(see Government of India Act 1919).
This is just attakcing the man. not discussing the subject,.

How am I wrong?

Whta historical lmowledge am I missing,

ehe Dicesuion was made politically in Britian. By politicans it was not a miliatry decision.
 

Chlodio

Ad Honorem
Aug 2016
3,810
Dispargum
The conversation between Dreuxeng and Larrey went off the rails sometime around post #105. It's been quiet now for 2.5 hrs. Maybe both of them have decided to drop it. Pugsville, leave it alone. Let an unproductive conversation die. Don't pump new life into it.

Moderator
 
Sep 2015
1,754
England
This is just attakcing the man. not discussing the subject,.

How am I wrong?

Whta historical lmowledge am I missing,

ehe Dicesuion was made politically in Britian. By politicans it was not a miliatry decision.
Sorry old chap, but you are wrong again. In my post i said, quite specifically, see the Government of India Act 1919. Therefore in that document you will observe key details... that is fundamental to the discussion!

surely you are supposed to do an internet search, for such things, unless ???
 

Chlodio

Ad Honorem
Aug 2016
3,810
Dispargum
Dreuxeng, I find your last few posts vague with little logic or reasoning behind them. I can not glean what arguments you are trying to make.

Pugsville said, "The Labour Party pretty much favour indepednce for India in the 1930s."

To which you responded, No, "(see Government of India Act 1919)."

which suggested to me that Britain favored Indian independence as early as 1919. Except I don't see independence in the 1919 Act. It's about responsible rule for India within the British Empire.

Pugsville seems not to have gleaned any thrust to your arguments either because in post #117 he asked you "How am I wrong? What historical knowledge am I missing?" which you refused to answer.

If you want to have a productive conversation I suggest you be more specific than "Nope," "No, you are [wrong]," "... you are wrong again." and don't tell someone to look it up a second time if after the first time they tell you they can't find what you're trying to point them to. What key details are Pugsville supposed to find in the 1919 Act? I don't know either. A "quote" citing chapter and verse from the 1919 Act might be helpful.


Moderator
 
Likes: Tulius

Similar History Discussions