Development of the Early modern State

Apr 2018
236
Italy
#21
Yes, But Venetian Army was mostly mercenary (not as the Spanish-Portuguese, English) and I don´t know about Venetian standing Embassy in Madrid or in London from 15th Century. iN any case, Venetian State was very important in Europe in Medieval Age. When the Spaniards (Colón) and Portuguese (Vasco da Gama) arrived to America and India... Venetia was fatally wounded.
Venice had standing units like the stradiotti or the fanti da mar, also had a stable fleet.

The first stable embassy were established in the Italian states around half of XV century (Mantova or Venice were the first). Also the Bailo of Costantinople from XIII century was an ambassador.

The fatal wound to Venetian wasn't inflicted by Colombo, but by the Ottoman that compromised the commerce with the Levant.
 

sparky

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
3,567
Sydney
#22
.
this is a process often without clear boundaries
certainly the modern state was increasing uniformity an centralization

Unity of military command is the simplest metric , it is both the result and the cause of the modern state
there are plenty of others way of looking at it
legal variation in laws , weight and measures , currencies did occur , there was plenty of regional variations
as far as I know the Hansa wasn't a state , more like a loose confederation of cities ,
decision of the councils were not bidding on it's members , they could join or not any military campaign ,
their best weapons was trade embargoes
in some way a paralle could be drawn with the modern EU parliament
 

robto

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,899
Lisbon, Portugal
#23
China during Qin Dynasty already had many of the institutions that could be described as "early modern", and during the Tang-Song transition period we witness a total socio-political transformation that completely ends with the preponderance of the aristocracy and hereditary nobility and changes to a system of administration and rule based on a body of highly skilled bureaucrats chosen by their merit. All that took place before the European early modern period.
 

VHS

Ad Honorem
Dec 2015
4,281
Brassicaland
#24
IMO, a modern state is the antonym of a failed state:

For a example, a functional modern state must:
1) Assume firm control of its territory.
2) Possess legitimacy to make collective decisions
3) Provide adequate public services
4) Interact with the international community as a full member

When did a state with these contemporary features emerge?
 

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
24,920
Lago Maggiore, Italy
#25
IMO, a modern state is the antonym of a failed state:

For a example, a functional modern state must:
1) Assume firm control of its territory.
2) Possess legitimacy to make collective decisions
3) Provide adequate public services
4) Interact with the international community as a full member

When did a state with these contemporary features emerge?
In Switzerland?

Easy humor a part, perfection isn't. I would say that points from 1 to 4 can be applied [with a certain tolerance] to all modern democracies [about public services Italy is to be kept a part!].
 

Larrey

Ad Honorem
Sep 2011
4,948
#26
Other than the use of the cogs, I don't. I believe they armed their merchant ships. But you are correct that they could not withstand the military power of nations such as Sweden.
It was based on the individual towns and cities, and Lübeck was the the biggie. It wasn't trying to compete for territory or land armies, but until late in the 16th c. the Lübeck navy was a force to be reckoned with in the Baltic. On par with the Danish and Swedish navies.
 
Likes: Rodger

sparky

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
3,567
Sydney
#27
the Hansa put a trade embargo on Norway for interfering with their merchants privileges
it was not total ,Bremen in particular did some trading , and got punished for it ,
since Norway imported grain , the prices rose and a fair bit of the population starved ,
eventually Norway caved in
this became an example that one do not trifle with the Hansa
 

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