Did any Zionists ever advocate a Jewish state somewhere in Eastern Europe?

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
17,727
SoCal
#31
I can actually help here. The answer is yes, well sort of. During the 19th century the Zionist's when looking for a place to create their ethnic state for a brief moment set their eyes on the Patagonian region (very thinly populated at the time, well even today) as a place. They very quickly forgot about it, however fast forward more than 100 years to the present and there is a conspiracy theory that has even been echoed by a Chilean congressman of Palestinian heritage (he had to admit eventually it was an ill formed hoax) here in Chile (not sure if Argentina) that goes by 'Plan Andinia' (Andean plan) which was the original Zionist name for the idea which was quickly dropped.
Andinia Plan - Wikipedia

*Argentina received relatively massive Jewish immigration (19th early 20th century) but to my knowledge almost all of it concentrated in the Buenos Aires vicinity. Chile also has some Jewish people (20,000-50,000 c.) also not in the south.
How many Jews do you think that Patagonia could have accommodated if the necessary infrastructure would have been built?
 

mark87

Ad Honorem
Jan 2014
2,031
Santiago de Chile
#32
You could probably fit a couple million there, but the issue is you have to basically start from zero and the area is very isolated, weather miserable at times, and it would be an environmental catastrophe probably. (The area is where our more world renown national parks are). And then you would have to contend with previous inhabitants (natives*) and by the late 19th century thousands of Chileans, Argentine's, and European immigrants who may or may not have a problem with Jews (and directly to the north you have at least 6,000 German speakers).

*Not fun fact: One of the most notorious Indian hunters (Genocide of native groups) was a Romanian born Jewish man Julius Popper. Julius Popper - Wikipedia
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
17,727
SoCal
#33
You could probably fit a couple million there, but the issue is you have to basically start from zero and the area is very isolated, weather miserable at times, and it would be an environmental catastrophe probably.
It isn't that far from Patagonia to Buenos Aires and even Brazil, Uruguay, and Chile, no? Build some railroads connecting Patagonia with these territories and you should be set, no? :)

As for the environmental catastrophe, isn't that an argument in favor of having Jews settle in densely packed Patagonian cities so that the Patagonian countryside would be largely preserved?

As for miserable weather, well, dancing in the rain should actually be pretty fun. :)

(The area is where our more world renown national parks are). And then you would have to contend with previous inhabitants (natives*) and by the late 19th century thousands of Chileans, Argentine's, and European immigrants who may or may not have a problem with Jews
Encourage mass intermarriage between the natives and other Europeans and the Jews here. That should solve this problem. :)

(and directly to the north you have at least 6,000 German speakers).
Why exactly would that be a problem?

*Not fun fact: One of the most notorious Indian hunters (Genocide of native groups) was a Romanian born Jewish man Julius Popper. Julius Popper - Wikipedia
Oh wow! :(
 

mark87

Ad Honorem
Jan 2014
2,031
Santiago de Chile
#34
It isn't that far from Patagonia to Buenos Aires and even Brazil, Uruguay, and Chile, no? Build some railroads connecting Patagonia with these territories and you should be set, no? :)

As for the environmental catastrophe, isn't that an argument in favor of having Jews settle in densely packed Patagonian cities so that the Patagonian countryside would be largely preserved?

As for miserable weather, well, dancing in the rain should actually be pretty fun. :)



Encourage mass intermarriage between the natives and other Europeans and the Jews here. That should solve this problem. :)



Why exactly would that be a problem?



Oh wow! :(
1. Well I mean we are talking about some over 2,000 km's distance, not sure I'd call that close by to be honest. I'm fairly certain the Argentine side must have or had a railroad that could take you from Buenos Aires to the Patagonian region.
2. In my experience if people immigrate in the 19th century you would see environmental difficulties, and there is almost no lumber at all on the Argentine side, you'd have to bring in all the lumber from the other side of the mountains at least.
3. I'm not sure what the growing season is like down there but given their frosts and snow it might prove hard to grow too much food, I hadn't even thought of that.
4. Well some of those German speakers ended up being very 'committed' National Socialists in the 20th century (granted not a majority) might spark trouble, that's why I mentioned it, also antisemitism was present to some degree in both Chile and Argentina at the time, not European levels but it was there.

The real life experience in the area was that European, Chilean, Argentine people moved in displaced and or clashed with the natives (in some cases killing them off to use the land for sheep ranching) and the mixing of people took a while.
 
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