Did Communism Help Russia and China Modernize and Become Major Powers Again?

sparky

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
5,692
Sydney
the Bolsheviks were big on education , especially technical education
this created a pool of engineers and cadres which was free from the old regime paralytic corruption

Hitler believed the revolution had destroyed the governance of Russia , in fact it created one
again , for memory ,
during WW1 the lesser third of the Kaiser forces trashed the Czar forces consistently
during WW2 the best two third of Hitler forces got beaten by Stalin forces

Proof by fact !
 
Mar 2018
988
UK
the Bolsheviks were big on education , especially technical education
this created a pool of engineers and cadres which was free from the old regime paralytic corruption

Hitler believed the revolution had destroyed the governance of Russia , in fact it created one
again , for memory ,
during WW1 the lesser third of the Kaiser forces trashed the Czar forces consistently
during WW2 the best two third of Hitler forces got beaten by Stalin forces

Proof by fact !
It's not a proof or a fact. You'd have to compare what Tsarists forces would have been in 1940 had there not been a revolution. Considering the pace at which Russia was modernising it's armed forces in 1914, it might well have had the world's best army in 1940.

The only way you can get any fact here is if you have a teleportation/time-machine that can take us into this alternative timeline so we can compare-like-for-like. Without that, you simply cannot claim as fact that the Communist revolution is the cause for Russia beating Germany in WW2.
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
23,762
SoCal
the Bolsheviks were big on education , especially technical education
this created a pool of engineers and cadres which was free from the old regime paralytic corruption

Hitler believed the revolution had destroyed the governance of Russia , in fact it created one
again , for memory ,
during WW1 the lesser third of the Kaiser forces trashed the Czar forces consistently
during WW2 the best two third of Hitler forces got beaten by Stalin forces

Proof by fact !
Germany did defeat Russia on various occasions in WWI but none of its victories were actually decisive enough to knock Russia out of the war. As for WWII, Stalin's victories only came after the defeats that he experienced at the start of Operation Barbarossa. Plus, even after Moscow was saved at the end of 1941, the first part of 1942 went rather poorly for the Soviet Union.
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
23,762
SoCal
It's not a proof or a fact. You'd have to compare what Tsarists forces would have been in 1940 had there not been a revolution. Considering the pace at which Russia was modernising it's armed forces in 1914, it might well have had the world's best army in 1940.

The only way you can get any fact here is if you have a teleportation/time-machine that can take us into this alternative timeline so we can compare-like-for-like. Without that, you simply cannot claim as fact that the Communist revolution is the cause for Russia beating Germany in WW2.
Agreed. In fact, it's worth noting that the Communists initially held back Russia's development due to the civil war that they unleashed upon Russia as a result of their November 1917 coup.
 

sparky

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
5,692
Sydney
speculations are fine but the historical fact is that the soviets , after a decade of national desolation rebuild itself into a war winning machine

czarist Russia had been trounced by the Japanese , the Soviet trounced them in 1939
they were trounced by the kaiser forces , the Soviets ended the war in Berlin streets
there is absolutely no reasons to believe the regime could have re-invented itself and avoided its usual stagnation and corruption

could the Kerensky republic have done better ? is an interesting question
on the face of it , they were pretty useless too , couldn't even keep power and let it slip from their feeble hands
 
Mar 2018
988
UK
there is absolutely no reasons to believe the regime could have re-invented itself and avoided its usual stagnation and corruption
You could take the rate of modernisation of the army between 1880 and 1914 and use that to extrapolate from 1917 to 1940. That is definitely evidence that it was modernising fairly rapidly. That the Germans decided to go to war in 1914 is evidence that they feared what Tzarist Russia would become in the next decade if they weren't defeated.
 
Nov 2019
350
United States
Brilliantly ignorant decisions, like figuring out somehow that Boolean Alegebra was counter-revolutionary, was a fine example of communist ideology.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lalli

MG1962a

Ad Honorem
Mar 2019
2,399
Kansas
Brilliantly ignorant decisions, like figuring out somehow that Boolean Alegebra was counter-revolutionary, was a fine example of communist ideology.
And this slowed Soviet modernization how exactly?

Remember the Nazis banned Jewish physics, but still did very well with technological development during the war. Their only failing was industrial capacity and resources.
 
Dec 2017
371
Florida
Divinespark,

Malinvestment is a fascinating concept to me.

Malinvestment - Wikipedia

Did you use that word with a specific theoretical economic meaning or just as a general description of communist investment policies?
I meant literal malinvestment because it is an investment based upon incorrect/unavailable economic information. I do know they turned their economy into an (i guess the best way to explain it) accounting of things with statistics/quotas. These quotas became inflated for fear of retaliation/execution by those assigned to govern them so I guess in a very bizarre sense these indicators became something like interest rates(?) for the Soviet economy. The Soviet economy is really a complex weave because they utilized foreign pricing systems, yet had their own central bank, and utilized economic data based upon production quantities.