Did German voters know before 1933 that Hitler was going to create a dictatorship?

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
7,686
#21
But your definition is more a "Libertarian" one, rather than an Enlightenment, French style definition. "Liberal" in this sense is quite narrow. Especially when one realises that whatever the nature of the German government installed by Napoleon, it was still an enforced, foreign Government which almost by definition needs oppressive aspects. Napoleon did not always live up to the liberal ideas he espoused and was still partly influenced by 18th century French enlightenment notions of authoritarianism. A major aspect of Napoleon's brand of Liberalism was the removal of feudal and church authority: unlike the English brand of Liberalism, which focussed more upon economics, Napoleon's ideas were torn between retaining his grip and reshaping the society of Europe.
Ahem. Napoleon almost never lived up it his liberal propaganda He was an abusolutist as any bourbon. He installed a foreign, tax exempt, Nobility upon his conquests and allies. That's abolishing feudalism?

installing himself as a ruler ruling by devine right in new approved Catholic catechism.

Napoleon was never torn between retaining his grip and reshaping society. he was reshaping society to tighten his grip.
 
#22
No they didn't.

That's like saying Americans would of known if Trump created one.

You have to remember Germans at the time were voting out of desperation, the Gov't of the time had let them down again and again and the country was in disarray, America and Europe had them under sanctions and they were buying loafs of bread with money filling up wheel barrows such was the harsh penalties against their currency.

Hitler ousted the Jews as being the cause, just the same as today Western leaders oust muslims, its always easy to create a bogey man when people are desperate, people need a bad guy in hard times and Hitler was providing one.

Regardless of Hitlers strong man tactics, Germany had a full Gov't and democratic system, Hitler hijacked it by setting an emergency gov't following the fire at the Reichstag stating it as a terrorist attack by the communists, my biggest surprise is how he managed to bully the other parties into agreeing to it.

They hated him, feared him and in the end they just gave up, gave him a vote of confidence and he essentially took emergency powers of which he made permanent.
 

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
7,686
#23
America and Europe had them under sanctions
Nope. reparations had been suspended before Hitler's election.tehere were no sanctions.

and they were buying loafs of bread with money filling up wheel barrows such was the harsh penalties against their currency.
t.
NO they were not. that was the hyper inflation of the early 1920s completely different episode. THis was not happening 10 years later when the Nazis were getting large amount of votes and Hitler was appointed chancellor.
 

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
7,686
#24
Regardless of Hitlers strong man tactics, Germany had a full Gov't and democratic system, Hitler hijacked it by setting an emergency gov't following the fire at the Reichstag stating it as a terrorist attack by the communists, my biggest surprise is how he managed to bully the other parties into agreeing to it.
Well the nationalists were his allies they didn't tthink they would turn on them, the communists were banned so were not present, the social democrats did not vote for the enabling act, the Center party did a deal which Hitler immediately broke. Hitler also had his storm troopers in the Parliament. Voting against was taking a real risk.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enabling_Act_of_1933
 
#25
Nope. reparations had been suspended before Hitler's election.tehere were no sanctions.
Just because reparations had been suspended doesn't mean it hadn't of mean't years of hardship for Germans.
Its not a light switch event, damage takes years and undoing the damage takes even longer.

Hitler made his base during the reparations, that is the point.
 
Jul 2016
7,353
USA
#26
Just because reparations had been suspended doesn't mean it hadn't of mean't years of hardship for Germans.
Its not a light switch event, damage takes years and undoing the damage takes even longer.

Hitler made his base during the reparations, that is the point.
You're confusing reparations with the effects of the Great Depression on Germany, which is what really solidified popularity of the Nazis and the communist parties among German voters. Your wheelbarrow anecdote was during the massive hyperinflation from '18-'24, which was long before Hitler was popular.
 

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
24,138
Lago Maggiore, Italy
#28
Mah ... did Trump's voters know exactly what Trump was going to do? Did Obama's voters that he would haven't been able to transform the United States into a perfect democracy based on freedom and equality?


Electors are not intended to know in a democracy, they are intended to express a preference. Period. Who do you want to delegate to govern your country? Hillary or Donald? Adolf or ... ?


This means that it's a market: the one with the best advertising campaign is going to win.


The real point is that a real democracy should have institutional mechanisms to avoid that a winner becomes a dictator. Germany hadn't [like the Italian Kingdom]. This is the point.
 

stevev

Ad Honorem
Apr 2017
2,313
Las Vegas, NV USA
#29
The real point is that a real democracy should have institutional mechanisms to avoid that a winner becomes a dictator. Germany hadn't [like the Italian Kingdom]. This is the point.
The Weimar Republic was a real democracy. It had seven regular national elections from 1920 to 1932. It had a lot of political parties because of proportional representation. Some would argue it was more democratic than Britain's two party system. It's fatal flaw was article 48 which allowed the government to declare emergency powers. However any constitution can be subverted. It's just a so many words.
 

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
7,686
#30
Just because reparations had been suspended doesn't mean it hadn't of mean't years of hardship for Germans.
Its not a light switch event, damage takes years and undoing the damage takes even longer.

Hitler made his base during the reparations, that is the point.
What hardship that was caused by reparations?

Germany I think had actually received more money in US loans than paid out in reparations.

Problems with the Wiemar economy come down to German economic decisions. During ww1 Germany made no attempt to pay for increased for increased expenditure during the war, banking on extracting it form the entente after winning, it also made no attempt to cap war profits by the industrialist companies,. Germany came out of ww1 with a massive internal debt. This had been very inflationary, coming out of the war teh Wiemar government continued just printing money.

When the French occupied the Rhur over non payment of reparations, the German Government supported a strike of resistance, guaranteeing both wages and profits, paid for by printing more money.

This lead to runaway hyper inflation. But on the plus side that had totally inflating away the internal German war debt ,all the war binds it owned it's own citizens. German had effectively wiped out the savings of the German people.

The Wiemar Governments ran large deficits, and never increased taxes.
 

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