Did Islam Condone Pedophilia?

Feb 2019
259
California
#22
To be fair, when Muhammad consummated the marriage with the 6-year-old Aisha, it was not thought of necessarily as a form of pedophilia, but mainly just the act of performing the ritual rights of what a marriage is required during ancient time periods. However, since it was condoned by Muhammad the Prophet, it can then be argued that pedophilia was embraced as normal, and is a normal part of the Islamic religion. However however, recently Islam has condemned such acts with the public execution of a man in Yemen who was accused of sexually-assaulting a four-year-old. Therefore, even if pedophilia was a minor part of Islam, it is certainly not allowed now, and is viewed as unacceptable or "haram" by the religious community.

Link to News Story: Pedophile publicly executed for raping and murdering four-year-old

Beware of anachronism, no doubt.
 
Apr 2018
1,562
Mythical land.
#25
The definition of "pedophilia" is an unnatural sexual attraction towards children, and the definition of "child" in this context is one who has not reached sexual maturity. In females, sexual maturity is reached with the onset of menstruation, which indicates that she is capable of sexual reproduction. According to the Islamic sources, Aisha had her first menstruation at the age of 9 or 10, at which point she was no longer a child and thus was objectively fit for consummation. These are the parameters laid down by God (or by Nature, if you prefer), not by myself or any other human being. In most modern states, it is considered illegal to have intercourse with a person under some specified age (usually 16 or 18), but these laws are arbitrary and have nothing to do with some objective or natural morality. Throughout history, it was common for a female to already have children by her early teenage years, because that is what God/Nature intended.

It is also worth noting that no Westerner condemned Muhammad as a "pedophile" before the 20th century (if I am mistaken, please cite some examples of such condemnations). This is a purely modern condemnation that is based on the subjective moral values of modern Western civilization. This condemnation is not grounded in any objective or natural morality. Furthermore, from a historical standpoint the marriage that was considered most unusual was not Muhammad's marriage to Aisha, but rather Muhammad's marriage to his first wife Khadija, who was said to be 15 years older than him (when she married Muhammad, she was 40 and he was 25). From an objective biological standpoint, we can certainly say that the marriage between Muhammad and Khadija was much less desirable than the marriage between Muhammad and Aisha, since women have a specific age window in which they are fertile (from puberty to menopause), while men can theoretically sire children even in old age. Thus, while it makes perfect biological sense for an older man to marry a much younger woman, it makes much less biological sense for a young man to marry a significantly older woman.
Actually mensuration is not the criteria used, by that logic lina medina(youngest women in recorded history to give birth) would be considered sexually mature by age of just 8 months

And can you give any hadith or sirah which talk about mensuration age in aisha's case? Cause i do not remember reading about it, although i do remember reading about aisha palying with dolls since she kid to about 14 years of age

And obviously there is no such thing as one objective morality, morality is subjective largely based on subjective principles some of which are better for human welfare more than other and thus can be called superior in that regard only not as in universal regard or anything like that.

And while women did get married n teenage years in past, the norm wasn't age gap of 50 years by any means
 

kandal

Ad Honorem
Aug 2015
2,608
USA
#26
The definition of "pedophilia" is an unnatural sexual attraction towards children, and the definition of "child" in this context is one who has not reached sexual maturity. In females, sexual maturity is reached with the onset of menstruation, which indicates that she is capable of sexual reproduction. According to the Islamic sources, Aisha had her first menstruation at the age of 9 or 10, at which point she was no longer a child and thus was objectively fit for consummation. These are the parameters laid down by God (or by Nature, if you prefer), not by myself or any other human being. In most modern states, it is considered illegal to have intercourse with a person under some specified age (usually 16 or 18), but these laws are arbitrary and have nothing to do with some objective or natural morality. Throughout history, it was common for a female to already have children by her early teenage years, because that is what God/Nature intended.

It is also worth noting that no Westerner condemned Muhammad as a "pedophile" before the 20th century (if I am mistaken, please cite some examples of such condemnations). This is a purely modern condemnation that is based on the subjective moral values of modern Western civilization. This condemnation is not grounded in any objective or natural morality. Furthermore, from a historical standpoint the marriage that was considered most unusual was not Muhammad's marriage to Aisha, but rather Muhammad's marriage to his first wife Khadija, who was said to be 15 years older than him (when she married Muhammad, she was 40 and he was 25). From an objective biological standpoint, we can certainly say that the marriage between Muhammad and Khadija was much less desirable than the marriage between Muhammad and Aisha, since women have a specific age window in which they are fertile (from puberty to menopause), while men can theoretically sire children even in old age. Thus, while it makes perfect biological sense for an older man to marry a much younger woman, it makes much less biological sense for a young man to marry a significantly older woman.
There are hadiths that say Mohammed married and had sex with Aisha aged 9 before she reached puberty. As a result, it is the age 9, and not puberty, that is considered the right time for a girl to marry in Islam.

Young Mohammed, an illiterate man having a hard time making a living, married older and rich widow Khadija for 'gold digger' reasons. Nothing unusual here. People do it today.
 
Last edited:

tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
13,120
#27
I am not sure what is the point of this thread, especially in a context when the catholic church seems to be the one with such a problem at the moment.

Islam and muslim countries has/have a whole host of problems which I have put forth in many threads... However , having lived and travelled to many muslim countries, pedophilia is not one of them... This is not to say it is absent, but it does not appear to be more prevalent than in non muslim countries....
There is really not any significant number of muslims who would refer to the life of Muhammed in order to marry a 6, 9 or 12 (whatever the age of Aisha was supposed to be) girl... Such people would be looked down upon by the rest of the community, as in other countries/communities.... Such things may of course still happen in remote villages where poverty may drive people to extremes

India for example has a particularly high incidence of child brides given its high population
Atlas - Girls Not Brides
 
Apr 2018
1,562
Mythical land.
#28
I am not sure what is the point of this thread, especially in a context when the catholic church seems to be the one with such a problem at the moment.

Islam and muslim countries has/have a whole host of problems which I have put forth in many threads... However , having lived and travelled to many muslim countries, pedophilia is not one of them... This is not to say it is absent, but it does not appear to be more prevalent than in non muslim countries....
There is really not any significant number of muslims who would refer to the life of Muhammed in order to marry a 6, 9 or 12 (whatever the age of Aisha was supposed to be) girl... Such people would be looked down upon by the rest of the community, as in other countries/communities.... Such things may of course still happen in remote villages where poverty may drive people to extremes

India for example has a particularly high incidence of child brides given its high population
Atlas - Girls Not Brides
Child marriage in india are reprehensible but not paedophilic as both bride and groom are children in most of cases
 
#29
Unfortunately this issue is not going to be settled by pointing to the Koran or Hadith. There are conflicting traditions in Islam, with some saying that Muhammad had sex with a prepubescent Aisha, and others denying it. I have no idea what the majority of Muslims actually believe about these traditions, though. I would hope that most Muslims have a sense of basic human decency that would lead them to reject pedophilia regardless of what their traditions say, similar to how most Christians reject slavery even though it was practiced shamelessly by figures venerated in Christian traditions.

The best thing to do would be to study the incidence of pedophilia among Muslims around the world. If it's no higher than in non-Muslim communities, then that should be that. If it is higher, then it would be worth exploring why that is.

Alas, I don't have knowledge of any such studies. But the signs don't look good. For example, rape of a child appears to be legal in Saudi Arabia provided the girl is married to the perpetrator. Is that just a legal loophole that is rarely or never exploited? Or do pedophiles use it regularly to act out their sick desires? I don't know the answer, but, again, it sure is a pretty bad sign.
 
Oct 2014
77
Osaka
#30
Unfortunately this issue is not going to be settled by pointing to the Koran or Hadith. There are conflicting traditions in Islam, with some saying that Muhammad had sex with a prepubescent Aisha, and others denying it. I have no idea what the majority of Muslims actually believe about these traditions, though. I would hope that most Muslims have a sense of basic human decency that would lead them to reject pedophilia regardless of what their traditions say, similar to how most Christians reject slavery even though it was practiced shamelessly by figures venerated in Christian traditions.

The best thing to do would be to study the incidence of pedophilia among Muslims around the world. If it's no higher than in non-Muslim communities, then that should be that. If it is higher, then it would be worth exploring why that is.

Alas, I don't have knowledge of any such studies. But the signs don't look good. For example, rape of a child appears to be legal in Saudi Arabia provided the girl is married to the perpetrator. Is that just a legal loophole that is rarely or never exploited? Or do pedophiles use it regularly to act out their sick desires? I don't know the answer, but, again, it sure is a pretty bad sign.
I agree, there needs to be more empirical evidence and studies before one can say much of conclusion. I also noticed the problem of Catholic church which seems to be more prevalent in the news. I have no idea why the Catholics have an issue with this but probably it has something to do with their priests not being allowed to marry. Presumably this means that a higher than usual percentage of sexually 'unusual' people become priest. As far as I know, this issue does not exist in Islam countries as their priests (is this the right word?) are allowed to marry normally.

Saudi Arabia is not a systme which I agree with, I don't like this type of extremist religious theocracy for any country.