Did things not go smoothly?

Jul 2016
974
Dengie Peninsula
#1
Trump and Kim called it a day, without any sort of agreement. Trump will wiz home on Air force 1, Kim on a slightly slower 2800 miles on a train. (Could DT not have offered him a lift) No agreement has been signed and the whole operation appears to have ground to a halt.
 
Jul 2009
9,424
#2
The "personality driven" diplomatic approach of POTUS is a mistake. He does not see any of this as concerning anything but himself, and he is too confident that he is able to con anyone, and that is foolish. Kim is playing the long game - playing for time and betting that POTUS will be gone in a couple of years. As long as he has the nuke card (regardless of the size of his button) he is willing to deal, or not deal, with whomever comes next.

Kim is NOT going to give up a nuclear capability that gives him leverage and is an excuse for the disastrous economy of N.K. Of course the North has to spend treasure on nukes because of all the "threats" around them, and there isn't anything left for the population. What is the poor guy to do? :)
 
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#3
Well, it's disappointing how the summit-meeting ended up, but it's no surprise. The U.S, justifiably wants North Korea to completely give up all it's nuclear capability in return for an ending of all sanctions. And North Korea justifiably is unwilling to completely give up all the nuclear capability that it's acquired over the years. It will be a long, hard road to come to some sort of compromise. But it's progress that at least both sides are now communicating with each other, and it's better than the previous hurling back-and-forth of threats and imprecations. It seems that North Korea has ceased firing test nuclear missiles across the Pacific, and the U.S. & South Korea have toned-down their war-games on the Korean border. I suppose that the summit-meetings are over for the time being, but hopefully some diplomatic-ties will continue, and eventually some sort of nuclear-disarmament can happen over the long-term.

The U.S. needs to know that in return for ending sanctions, North Korea really does give up it's nuclear arms. If it cheats, it could use the increased economy to strengthen it's nuclear capability even further. And North Korea needs reassurance that if it gives up it's nuclear capability, the U.S. won't later reimpose sanctions, as it did with Iran. There's no easy solution to this dilemma.
 
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Jan 2010
4,287
Atlanta, Georgia USA
#4
Better no deal than a bad deal.

BTW an article in the Wall Street Journal this week said that the N. Korean economy has improved because Kim now permits enrepreneurial activity (ala Deng in China). That gives Kim more room to be a tough guy in talks
 
Dec 2015
3,361
USA
#5
Its the big time , fast talking guy from the Celebrity Apprentice in "The Donald"(whom lost the popular vote to H Clinton in 2016) whom some of his supporters feel Trump is the guy to combat so called Commies and Socialists, and ISIL types.

Here we have the Donald Meeting with Chairmen Kim.. its incredible that these two have meant not once but twice.

Trump has reached out twice to the Communist leader Kim. And in addition under Trump the USA is willing to work with the Taliban in Afghanistan.. the very group that freedom loving Afghan people lay their blood on the line to rid their country of. The former is something that perhaps is easier to pursue, as the Taliban are so intolerant that there is zero excuse to work with the Taliban other then greed like ie money related.

What the USA should do with North Korea if we are to pursue diplomacy, then treat NK with respect. Stop acting as if NK has to give up arms while the USA can have all the arms it wants. I for one hope for change for the better in NK...but the fact is the US already works with countries with different law systems like Saudi, Pakistan and Israel so why not add NK to that list. What one truly hopes for is US leadership will actually pursue liberal and good policies and not just pursue diplomacy based on making money or similar.
 
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Jul 2016
8,208
USA
#6
Better no deal than a bad deal.

BTW an article in the Wall Street Journal this week said that the N. Korean economy has improved because Kim now permits enrepreneurial activity (ala Deng in China). That gives Kim more room to be a tough guy in talks
No it doesn't, the sanctions are absolutely crushing North Korea. And they are Kim and the OGD faction which supports him, who were the ones pressing for nukes. There is a growing middle class, but its centered only in Pyongyang and really evolves around black marketeers and family of various govt and military functionaries that are in good graces of the regime.
 
Jul 2016
8,208
USA
#7
This is just negotiations. Any other president would have simply unwillingly accepted North Korea as a reluctant nuclear power because they didn't have the stones to stop it. Any other president would have left the first meeting, let alone the second, with whatever deal they could get so they could have something on paper and a photo op to look presidential and statesmanlike. Instead, a bad deal was proposed in negotiation, so he walked. That is how proper negotiations happen. The ball is still in US court, we control North Korea's fate through the sanctions and embargoes.

This is still good because at least some discussions are happening.
 

Edratman

Ad Honorem
Feb 2009
6,188
Eastern PA
#8
IMHO, negotiations between nations are conducted by lower level professionals with time and resources galore. Heads of State should limit their role to the last scene before the curtain drops to affix their signatures and bask in all the glory.

Trump didn't even bother to prep for the summit, instead choosing to rely on his innate "negotiating skills" to overawe and overwhelm his N. Korean counterpart. Accordingly, the result of the summit were wholly expected.

Hanoi Summit Failed Because Trump Refuses to Prep

Hanoi Failed Because Trump Refuses to Prep for Summits
 

sparky

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
3,624
Sydney
#9
Those "negotiations" always had something surreal about them .
The one and only reason why the US attach some importance to North Korea is because they are nuclear capable
should they totally denuclearize , their importance would drop to near zero
I'ts pretty obvious that they would have to get some very serious incentive to go that way

from the time of the red Indians to today Iran
the US signing treaties has as much standing as people peddling the statue of liberty to tourists
those tend to be torn in piece no matter the consequences

Further any treaty has zilch chance of passing congress ,
the Democrats would torpedo any Trump proposal , even if it was to cure cancer or universal peace
sad but true
Trump has no national authority behind him , he can do some executive orders but those can be thrown out in minutes

So Trump came empty handed , he left empty handed

what amaze me is that there doesn't seems to have been much groundwork before
the normal way is to have a team work out the details , write the text complete
go back home for the top leadership approval
and then , only then ,the leaders travel somewhere to sign the papers in front of the cameras and make a speech
while the medias go weak at the knees
 
Jul 2016
8,208
USA
#10
IMHO, negotiations between nations are conducted by lower level professionals with time and resources galore. Heads of State should limit their role to the last scene before the curtain drops to affix their signatures and bask in all the glory.

Trump didn't even bother to prep for the summit, instead choosing to rely on his innate "negotiating skills" to overawe and overwhelm his N. Korean counterpart. Accordingly, the result of the summit were wholly expected.
If it was up to the state dept, that meeting would never even have happened in the first place. Trump caused it. Remember about a year and a half ago when the world (and especially here in the Chamber on Historum) was absolutely assured the crazy orange man was going to start a nuclear war? That was also against the advice of everyone. And that pressure, plus the pressure of the increased sanctions and embargoes, so crushing that they themselves are nearly acts of war (to which Trump dared Kim to respond in the slightest provocation). That is what caused this summit to even occur in the first place. And the same thing that created the conditions that meant Kim had to make a deal to survive is still in place. Trump has the cards, he doesn't need to be there, he isn't the one who has to worry about coups and being assassinated because his decisions and stubborness is destroying a nation that is already weak to begin with.

And the Daily Beast opinion piece? That's like sourcing Pravda. Trump could cure cancer and they'd say he screwed up.