Did Tsarist Russia ever make a claim on Kurdistan?

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
17,807
SoCal
#1
Did Tsarist Russia ever make a claim on Kurdistan? I know that they claimed Ottoman Armenia but I was wondering if they ever claimed the Kurdish territories south of Ottoman Armenia.
 

stevev

Ad Honorem
Apr 2017
3,044
Las Vegas, NV USA
#2
Did Tsarist Russia ever make a claim on Kurdistan? I know that they claimed Ottoman Armenia but I was wondering if they ever claimed the Kurdish territories south of Ottoman Armenia.
Not that I could find. Lenin/Trotsky of course had ambitions for a communist world more or less under their control.o_O
 
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stevev

Ad Honorem
Apr 2017
3,044
Las Vegas, NV USA
#4
Would this global Communist world have been one country?
I think the Soviet Union was a model. It consisted of federated "republics". This model was not later extended to Eastern Europe, China, Vietnam or Cuba. They were regarded as Moscow's allies in the struggle against " capitalism and imperialism". This was just the reality and not a plan. If every country was in fact converted to communism, there would still be separate countries not necessarily at peace with each other. There were armed clashes on the Soviet - Chinese border after 1950 for example. Trotsky wanted to eliminate nationalism with some kind of international socialist order, but we all know what happened to him. :oops:
 
Likes: Futurist
Dec 2011
4,633
Iowa USA
#5
Did Tsarist Russia ever make a claim on Kurdistan? I know that they claimed Ottoman Armenia but I was wondering if they ever claimed the Kurdish territories south of Ottoman Armenia.
Was the frontier actually well-defined in 1915, not the Ottoman-Russo frontier but the separation between majority Kurdish and Armenian territory?

I'm not bringing any knowledge to the thread, rather I'm curious whether the distinction was "a thing" in 1915?
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
17,807
SoCal
#6
Was the frontier actually well-defined in 1915, not the Ottoman-Russo frontier but the separation between majority Kurdish and Armenian territory?

I'm not bringing any knowledge to the thread, rather I'm curious whether the distinction was "a thing" in 1915?
Very possibly not.
 
Dec 2011
4,633
Iowa USA
#7
Very possibly not.

In the present geopolitical alignment, we won't expect Kurdish movements to acknowledge a preference for Russian occupation over the status quo of 1914.

However, we could imagine (easily) that given the Tsarina's considerable political power, a portion of the closest advisers to Nicholas were likely pressing for some sort of control over Antioch, a pivotal location in the history of the Eastern Church. Any program which envisioned a protectorate over Antioch would necessarily include Russian influence over the Western portion of Kurdish-majority lands?
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
17,807
SoCal
#8
In the present geopolitical alignment, we won't expect Kurdish movements to acknowledge a preference for Russian occupation over the status quo of 1914.
Why not?

However, we could imagine (easily) that given the Tsarina's considerable political power, a portion of the closest advisers to Nicholas were likely pressing for some sort of control over Antioch, a pivotal location in the history of the Eastern Church. Any program which envisioned a protectorate over Antioch would necessarily include Russian influence over the Western portion of Kurdish-majority lands?
Yep. That said, though, would Britain and France have actually approved of such a Russian adventure?
 
Dec 2011
4,633
Iowa USA
#9
Why not?



Yep. That said, though, would Britain and France have actually approved of such a Russian adventure?
Since Assad is the horse being ridden by Putin, right?

French and Russians would have accommodated each other, certainly in a counterfactual in which First Sea Lord throws caution to the wind and the British fleet makes a run through Bosporus, as Churchill's memoir indicates was scotched by collective will of the admirals and Fisher.
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
17,807
SoCal
#10
Since Assad is the horse being ridden by Putin, right?
I thought that Assad and the Kurds could be reconciled?

French and Russians would have accommodated each other, certainly in a counterfactual in which First Sea Lord throws caution to the wind and the British fleet makes a run through Bosporus, as Churchill's memoir indicates was scotched by collective will of the admirals and Fisher.
A Russian expansion into Antioch would have created a huge salient, no?
 

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