Did WWII Germany do a better job of feeding people than WWI Germany?

Larrey

Ad Honorem
Sep 2011
5,005
#11
Denmark was important, but the real agricultural boon for Nazi Germany was the agricultural production of France.

France was put in a situation of enforced economic autarchy by the occupation. It then had to pay for its own occupation (Germany set the figures by fiat, and tended to increase them as time went on), while having to fork over 15-20% of its agricultural production to Nazi Germany.

The French nation was put on starvation-level rationing. As a consequence black-market trading became a necessity and national obsession. While at the same time being made strictly illegal by both the German occupation forces and the Vichy government. Of France's 40 million inhabitants and full million was hauled before a Vichy court and sentenced for black market trading. The situation was on a level where part of the landscape explaining why French resistance was slow to start really is that too many Frenchmen were too busy just finding enough to eat, but when it did kick off one of the things that really ticked off the French was the Vichy criminalisation of the black-market trading necessary to find enough to eat.

France on its own should have been perfectly able to feed itself. The Nazis taking that hefty cut precipitated the situation. The actual price of food in occupied France experienced a 400% increase during the German occupation. While Germany also had rationing, the amount accorded German civilians was almost twice that accorded the French, and a substantial part of the difference made up of French agricultural produce.

France being about ten times the size of Denmark the relative importance was rather greater. It was referred to as "the larder of the Reich", while Denmark was called "the Butter Front".
 

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
8,497
#12
Really? Can you provide some examples from Western Europe that occurred before the end of the war, when things broke down? I am not surprised if it happened in Eastern Europe, but that was because the Nazis were bent on removing the existing population to make room for Germans.
Did I say western Europe? But Western nations were not immune.

Great Famine (Greece) - Wikipedia

"Germany exported wartime hunger ti rge countries it occupied. In Belgium and France those who suffered were people without or limited access to the black market. Thus prisoners in Belgain goals began to die of stravation in 1942, unable to survive on the 1,550 calories a day teh ration provided, and unable to supplement their rations from alternative sources. Urban office workers, clerks, civil servants and the old suffered disproportionately as they lacked the cash or luxuary goods to barter for supplementary food. By 1943-44 Belgian and French families were spending 70% of their income on food..... ... Tuberculosis , which is strongly associated with malnutrition, spread among the yond and in France deaths from teh disease doubled. Malnutrition could be read in the stunuted growth of children. In 1944 teh French girls were 11 centimeters, and boys 7 centimeters shorter than their counter parts in 1935. By 1943 8-% of urban Belgian Children were suffering form ricketts" page 171-172 "The Taste of War = World War II and teh battle for Food (Lizze Collingham)
 
Nov 2018
160
Denmark
#13
France being about ten times the size of Denmark the relative importance was rather greater. It was referred to as "the larder of the Reich", while Denmark was called "the Butter Front".
The French were forced to nourish the Germans. The Danes cooperated favorably with Germany.
This and that Denmark just surrendered almost without struggle has since April 9, 1940 been a source of shame and debate about what really happened during the occupation .
 

stevev

Ad Honorem
Apr 2017
2,867
Las Vegas, NV USA
#14
Ukraine supplied food for German troops well enough that little was needed from other sources. Even during retreat western Ukraine was supplying food from the 1944 harvests. Eastern Europe also was supplying food.

Food Fights
 

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
8,497
#15
Ukraine supplied food for German troops well enough that little was needed from other sources. Even during retreat western Ukraine was supplying food from the 1944 harvests. Eastern Europe also was supplying food.

Food Fights
The Artcile is Based on Lizzie Collingham's book, which clealry says germans took quite a lot from other sources. Your sources sdoes not support your argument,
 

Chlodio

Ad Honorem
Aug 2016
3,516
Dispargum
#16
Many have read that same thing about famine, actually it was roughly true in Prague, Vienna and other large A-H cities. The reading I have done makes me dubious that any larger region of Germany was failing to provide adults the 1200 (maybe much more) calories per day that can keep people active, though clearly getting thinner. Big difference between hard austerity and a "famine"....
I interpret this to mean that during WW1 almost every German was consuming at least 1,200 calories per day and many Germans were consuming many more that 1,200 calories / day. That might be the line between life and death, but I suspect revolutions will break out long before the caloric intakes falls so low. You use the terms hard austerity and famine. I suspect hard austerity is probably enough to spark a revolution.
 

stevev

Ad Honorem
Apr 2017
2,867
Las Vegas, NV USA
#17
The Artcile is Based on Lizzie Collingham's book, which clealry says germans took quite a lot from other sources. Your sources sdoes not support your argument,
"...Hitler, the memory of mass malnutrition and starvation during the earlier conflict was an ever-present trauma. From early in his political life, Hitler wanted to conquer “living-space” for Germany in Eastern Europe and draw on the huge grain resources of Ukraine to feed the German armed forces. The Nazis had no intention of repeating the mistake of World War I."

Are you going to argue that Ukraine was not a significant food source at least for German troops operating there? This would obviously make food from other sources more available to the civilian population.
 
Dec 2011
4,450
Iowa USA
#18
I interpret this to mean that during WW1 almost every German was consuming at least 1,200 calories per day and many Germans were consuming many more that 1,200 calories / day. That might be the line between life and death, but I suspect revolutions will break out long before the caloric intakes falls so low. You use the terms hard austerity and famine. I suspect hard austerity is probably enough to spark a revolution.

Really I suppose I failed to emphasize that the reading I have done leads me to suspect that millions of civilians had access to LESS than 1200 calories in several other nations.

Other nations were legitimately on the brink of famine. It is a credit to the Imperial Germans that their society was not.
 
Likes: Chlodio

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
8,497
#19
"...Hitler, the memory of mass malnutrition and starvation during the earlier conflict was an ever-present trauma. From early in his political life, Hitler wanted to conquer “living-space” for Germany in Eastern Europe and draw on the huge grain resources of Ukraine to feed the German armed forces. The Nazis had no intention of repeating the mistake of World War I."

Are you going to argue that Ukraine was not a significant food source at least for German troops operating there? This would obviously make food from other sources more available to the civilian population.
NO. And nothing I said was making any such claim. it was in response to


Ukraine supplied food for German troops well enough that little was needed from other sources.
other nations occupied had lareg amnounts of food taken, and suffered as a result. Nowhere near as exteme as the east, granted,.
 

stevev

Ad Honorem
Apr 2017
2,867
Las Vegas, NV USA
#20
other nations occupied had lareg amnounts of food taken, and suffered as a result. Nowhere near as exteme as the east, granted,.
This is true. I said Ukraine supplied sufficient food to feed German troops in Ukraine. It is also true that as a result of unnecessary cruelty and mismanagement, yields were insufficient for export for civilian consumption in Germany and much of Ukraine was severely impacted by food shortages. At best, food from Ukraine reduced the need to feed troops there from draining other sources.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/20029229?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
 
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