Difference between nationalism and patriotism?

May 2013
1,720
The abode of the lord of the north
#31
Ajathashatru

Nationalists take a further step and considers every other countries and countrymen to be inferior to theirs.

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I do not agree.
That's what I've seen mostly.
Well it goes like this. Once there is some competence between their country and others, where they can romanticize theirs, they will. Acts of willful ignorance, not criticizing any otherwise despicable actions of their country are some of the processess on the course of them romanticizing.

So even if they don't really always claim their country is the best, there is a subtle belief, you can see it coming out whenever it can. It's called a bias.
 
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kandal

Ad Honorem
Aug 2015
2,571
USA
#32
Patriotism is being proud and be critical of ones country at the same time.
Nationalism is Patriotism on steroids with supremacist attitudes.
 
Jan 2019
7
Finland
#33
Depends on the context. In the US nationalism is more "white" nationalism or wanting to divide the country according to skin color. Elsewhere it's more about self-determination of a people. In Europe, especially Eastern Europe, nationalism is the preference to have a sovereign country as opposed to being part of an empire like the Russian or Austro-Hungarian one. As such, nationalism is the norm over here, though the term has been so tainted that few could recognise it in themselves. Like, 'nationalism' is the paradigm under which we generally operate and see countries as. Somewhat ironically the least nationalist countries in Europe are the ones that had empires, like Britain, France and Russia.
 

Vaeltaja

Ad Honorem
Sep 2012
3,654
#34
Depends on the context. In the US nationalism is more "white" nationalism or wanting to divide the country according to skin color. Elsewhere it's more about self-determination of a people. In Europe, especially Eastern Europe, nationalism is the preference to have a sovereign country as opposed to being part of an empire like the Russian or Austro-Hungarian one. As such, nationalism is the norm over here, though the term has been so tainted that few could recognise it in themselves. Like, 'nationalism' is the paradigm under which we generally operate and see countries as. Somewhat ironically the least nationalist countries in Europe are the ones that had empires, like Britain, France and Russia.
In a sense. Though the original meaning of 'nationalism' was tainted long ago. There is a reason why Albert Einstein stated that: "Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind." What currently is typically understood with 'nationalism' - and indeed what is typically also meant with 'nationalism' these days - is something fairly similar to 'chauvinism' and 'jingoism'. Just that the two latter ones are considered to be offensive terms and so are rarely used so it is politically more correct to use 'nationalism' instead which then results in a gradual change in the meaning of the word in a sense.
 
Jan 2019
7
Finland
#35
In a sense. Though the original meaning of 'nationalism' was tainted long ago. There is a reason why Albert Einstein stated that: "Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind." What currently is typically understood with 'nationalism' - and indeed what is typically also meant with 'nationalism' these days - is something fairly similar to 'chauvinism' and 'jingoism'. Just that the two latter ones are considered to be offensive terms and so are rarely used so it is politically more correct to use 'nationalism' instead which then results in a gradual change in the meaning of the word in a sense.
I agree. It also has to do with nationalism being the norm to such an extent that it generally doesn't make much sense to identify as one unless you subscribe to its more extreme forms. But I do also want to push back to the idea such as that nationalism is the hatred of other countries while patriotism is loving one's country. Seeing nationalism being misrepresented by people who clearly subscribe to nationalist ideas is very common.
 

Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
4,855
Portugal
#36
In a sense. Though the original meaning of 'nationalism' was tainted long ago. There is a reason why Albert Einstein stated that: "Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind." What currently is typically understood with 'nationalism' - and indeed what is typically also meant with 'nationalism' these days - is something fairly similar to 'chauvinism' and 'jingoism'. Just that the two latter ones are considered to be offensive terms and so are rarely used so it is politically more correct to use 'nationalism' instead which then results in a gradual change in the meaning of the word in a sense.
You make an interesting comment here when you mention the evolution of the word. Albeit I disagree that “nationalism” can only be seen “fairly similar to 'chauvinism' and 'jingoism'.” I consider the meaning of the word much more ample.

I agree. It also has to do with nationalism being the norm to such an extent that it generally doesn't make much sense to identify as one unless you subscribe to its more extreme forms. But I do also want to push back to the idea such as that nationalism is the hatred of other countries while patriotism is loving one's country. Seeing nationalism being misrepresented by people who clearly subscribe to nationalist ideas is very common.
I think that most of the people here say what they do think what nationalism is. But I would ask how many went to a dictionary or an encyclopaedia? Online or in paper? How many saw a definition by someone that really studied it? And someone can say that it is a nationalist without subscribing it in its most extreme forms. That is why the word ultra-nationalism exists, and means nationalism in its most extreme forms. By the way, there are soft and banal forms of nationalism.
 

Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
4,855
Portugal
#37
Patriotism is being proud and be critical of ones country at the same time.
Nationalism is Patriotism on steroids with supremacist attitudes.
That was repeated several times here. And several times denied. It makes me think... is there an author that has that concept?
 
Jan 2019
7
Finland
#38
I think that most of the people here say what they do think what nationalism is. But I would ask how many went to a dictionary or an encyclopaedia? Online or in paper? How many saw a definition by someone that really studied it? And someone can say that it is a nationalist without subscribing it in its most extreme forms. That is why the word ultra-nationalism exists, and means nationalism in its most extreme forms. By the way, there are soft and banal forms of nationalism.
To me nationalism at its basic form relates to the dichotomy between self-determination of peoples vs regional integrity, nationalism being the self-determination of a people obviously. And I take it for granted that a people should have the right of self-determination. The problems with nationalism then arise with the question that what exactly is a "people", and if it leads to discrimination and persecution of those not defined as part of the people and irredentism to bring territory and people into the nation who are outside the country's borders.
 
Feb 2019
8
Turtle Island
#39
Patriots can exist in independent, democratic, republic countries too. Patriots consider they have an inbound duty to their country. Nationalists take a further step and considers every other countries and countrymen to be inferior to theirs.

In a nutshell, Nationalism is Patriotism plus some fanaticism.
No, that would be ultranationalism.
 

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