Do you believe in life after death?

Do you believe in life after death?

  • Yes

    Votes: 87 39.9%
  • No

    Votes: 91 41.7%
  • I don't know

    Votes: 40 18.3%

  • Total voters
    218
Status
Closed

Ficino

Ad Honorem
Apr 2012
6,941
Romania
Well, yes and no. There is no consensus amongst christian churches. Some are adamant in taking the putative statement of Jesus on the matter as literal:

John 14.6 KJV " Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”

JW's believe that only 144.000 will be saved.


----and of course, every christian sect claims all the others are simply wrong and probably damned..

Some more progressive Catholic figures have stated, only a few year sago, that an atheist can go to heaven, as long as he/she is a good person who lives a moral/ethical life

Yep, used to confuse the frack out of me. I finally said "Stuff it! A plague on all your houses!" (a misquote of Shakespeare)
From the Holy Gospel according to St. John, 1:

12 But to all who did receive Him, who believed in His name, He gave the power to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
From the Holy Gospel according to St. John, 3:

3 Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again/from above he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?" 5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again/from above.' 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit."[...] 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His Only Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through Him. 18 Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the Only Son of God.
From St. John Chrysostom's Homily 25 on the Holy Gospel according to St. John:

[...]Let us now attend to the sequel of what has been before said. When Nicodemus fell into error and wrested the words of Christ to the earthly birth, and said that it was not possible for an old man to be born again, observe how Christ in answer more clearly reveals the manner of the Birth, which even thus had difficulty for the carnal enquirer, yet still was able to raise the hearer from his low opinion of it. What says He? Verily I say unto you, Unless a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. What He declares is this: You say that it is impossible, I say that it is so absolutely possible as to be necessary, and that it is not even possible otherwise to be saved. For necessary things God has made exceedingly easy also. The earthly birth which is according to the flesh, is of the dust, and therefore heaven is walled against it, for what has earth in common with heaven? But that other, which is of the Spirit easily unfolds to us the arches above. Hear, you as many as are unilluminated, shudder, groan, fearful is the threat, fearful the sentence. It is not (possible), He says, for one not born of water and the Spirit to enter into the Kingdom of heaven; because he wears the raiment of death, of cursing, of perdition, he has not yet received his Lord's token, he is a stranger and an alien, he has not the royal watchword. Except, He says, a man be born of water and of the Spirit he cannot enter into the Kingdom of heaven.

Yet even thus Nicodemus did not understand. Nothing is worse than to commit spiritual things to argument; it was this that would not allow him to suppose anything sublime and great. This is why we are called faithful, that having left the weakness of human reasonings below, we may ascend to the height of faith, and commit most of our blessings to her teaching; and if Nicodemus had done this, the thing would not have been thought by him impossible. What then does Christ? To lead him away from his groveling imagination, and to show that He speaks not of the earthly birth, He says, Unless a man be born of water and of the Spirit he cannot enter into the Kingdom of heaven. This He spoke, willing to draw him to the faith by the terror of the threat, and to persuade him not to deem the thing impossible, and taking pains to move him from his imagination as to the carnal birth. I mean, says He, another Birth, O Nicodemus. Why do you draw down the saying to earth? Why do you subject the matter to the necessity of nature? This Birth is too high for such pangs as these; it has nothing in common with you; it is indeed called 'birth,' but in name only has it anything in common, in reality it is different. Remove yourself from that which is common and familiar; a different kind of childbirth bring I into the world; in another manner will I have men to be generated: I have come to bring a new manner of Creation. I formed (man) of earth and water; but that which was formed was unprofitable, the vessel was wrenched awry; I will no more form them of earth and water, but 'of water' and 'of the Spirit.'
 
Last edited:
Dec 2018
6
Australia
I answered yes. But my belief is a little more different then most, that I've seen in modern times. I believe in the Ancient Greek afterlife. Like the underworld with Elysium, the Fields of Punishment and Asphodel. I believe in that. Bit weird, I know, but eh.
 

stevev

Ad Honorem
Apr 2017
3,415
Las Vegas, NV USA
If you believe in life after death, does that mean forever? Forever is a very very long time. The Universe is thought to be about 13.5 billion years old give or take a few hundred million years. Forever is a lot longer. Any number of years you could write using powers of powers would be infinitesimal compared to forever . I can't imagine what we could possibly be doing forever. So I hope to live a long satisfying life and then be dead forever rather than alive forever.

 
Last edited:
Likes: Todd Feinman
Oct 2018
1,209
Adelaide south Australia
@stevev .

Catholic theologians at least have argued that god created space and time. After the end time, everything returns to a non physical state. Time and space cease to exist. All that remains is an everlasting 'now'.

Woody Allen asked is there is sex after death. Based on the above, I suspect not.

I find it hard to get my head around, and I'm pretty much certain that some 'true christian' will disagree, because after all, Catholics are not real christians. You know, sometimes I find it really difficult to refrain from saying something unkind to such people. It's just an opinion after all..
 

stevev

Ad Honorem
Apr 2017
3,415
Las Vegas, NV USA
@stevev .

Catholic theologians at least have argued that god created space and time. After the end time, everything returns to a non physical state. Time and space cease to exist. All that remains is an everlasting now.
I don't think the Bible mentions any non-physical states or the everlasting "now". Is it sandwiched between the past and future? If so, how wide is it? If it's everlasting, then nothing changes, like being frozen. So if one lives forever, you're frozen? On the other hand, if there's an end of time, does that mean we all finally die? I think that would be better than being frozen. But the worst of all is having every day exactly the same and you never remember yesterday. It's like being born again every morning. I still think I'd rather die.
 
Oct 2018
1,209
Adelaide south Australia
I don't think the Bible mentions any non-physical states or the everlasting "now". Is it sandwiched between the past and future? If so, how wide is it? If it's everlasting, then nothing changes, like being frozen. So if one lives forever, you're frozen? On the other hand, if there's an end of time, does that mean we all finally die? I think that would be better than being frozen. But the worst of all is having every day exactly the same and you never remember yesterday. It's like being born again every morning. I still think I'd rather die.
Quite right, it doesn't as far as I know. That's why I said ' Catholic theologians". Nor is this a mainstream view. It's simply an academic exercise for me. I'm an atheist, so no investment in what people choose to believe. I mentioned this particular idea because it has an intellectual appeal for me. I make no claims, not even about the existence of god. All I'm willing to say about that subject is; I don't believe, but don't claim to know.
 
Apr 2018
1,562
Mythical land.
Well, yes and no. There is no consensus amongst christian churches. Some are adamant in taking the putative statement of Jesus on the matter as literal:

John 14.6 KJV " Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”

JW's believe that only 144.000 will be saved.


----and of course, every christian sect claims all the others are simply wrong and probably damned..

Some more progressive Catholic figures have stated, only a few year sago, that an atheist can go to heaven, as long as he/she is a good person who lives a moral/ethical life

Yep, used to confuse the frack out of me. I finally said "Stuff it! A plague on all your houses!" (a misquote of Shakespeare)


Islam also has a lot of different sects, although only two basic ones, Shia and Sunni.

So it's worth remembering that when a christian or muslim apologist posts something, they are doing so from the perspective of their peculiar sect. Even so, such people often claim exclusive and absolute truth on their side.-- and that's another reason I prefer not to bother with apologists
i wonder why and omnipotent,all knowing god would use books that are no different than fables to send his everlasting message.....there is bound intepretation some widely different then others,but if we read it literally i think only way to heaven is through believing in christ.
 
Jun 2016
1,851
England, 200 yards from Wales
I don't think the Bible mentions any non-physical states or the everlasting "now". Is it sandwiched between the past and future? If so, how wide is it? If it's everlasting, then nothing changes, like being frozen. So if one lives forever, you're frozen? On the other hand, if there's an end of time, does that mean we all finally die? I think that would be better than being frozen. But the worst of all is having every day exactly the same and you never remember yesterday. It's like being born again every morning. I still think I'd rather die.
Would that be an everlasting now, if it's one day repeated there is still passage of time within the day? If there is no time, how can one even think (one thought follows another), or communicate (one word leading to another). I wonder if the idea of any consciousness not in time makes sense at all?
 
Oct 2013
6,394
Planet Nine, Oregon
@stevev .

Catholic theologians at least have argued that god created space and time. After the end time, everything returns to a non physical state. Time and space cease to exist. All that remains is an everlasting 'now'.

Woody Allen asked is there is sex after death. Based on the above, I suspect not.

I find it hard to get my head around, and I'm pretty much certain that some 'true christian' will disagree, because after all, Catholics are not real christians. You know, sometimes I find it really difficult to refrain from saying something unkind to such people. It's just an opinion after all..
One would hope, if just for the sake of the captive observers, that the Big J would show up for ten minutes on CNN and Fox, raise a cemetery of the dead to prove he's the one (others would insist it was a trick of the Devil and would crucify him again), and then set all Christians straight on the correct church and denomination! It has to be torture f or him too, unless he decided to just turn the channel. I suppose there is a larger plan to the death and tedium, and I don't have faith, so that is my torture..
 

Ficino

Ad Honorem
Apr 2012
6,941
Romania
I don't think the Bible mentions any non-physical states or the everlasting "now". Is it sandwiched between the past and future? If so, how wide is it? If it's everlasting, then nothing changes, like being frozen. So if one lives forever, you're frozen? On the other hand, if there's an end of time, does that mean we all finally die? I think that would be better than being frozen. But the worst of all is having every day exactly the same and you never remember yesterday. It's like being born again every morning. I still think I'd rather die.
From St. Maximus the Confessor's Two Hundred Texts on Theology and the Incarnate Dispensation of the Son of God, II:

85. According to Scripture there are temporal ages in themselves, and temporal ages which encompass the consummation of other ages. This is clear from the text: 'But now once at the consummation of the ages . . . ' (Heb. 9:26). Again there are other ages or eons, free of a temporal nature, after this temporal age established at the consummation of the ages. This is shown by the text:'. . . so that in the ages to come He might display the overflowing richness . . .' (Eph. 2:7). But we also find in Scripture a large number of past, present and future ages: there are references to 'ages of ages' (Ps. 84:4. LXX), 'age of age' (Ps. 9:12. LXX), 'agelong times' (2 Tim. 1:9) and 'generations joined together by the ages' (Gen. 9:12). But now lest we digress too far from our subject by expounding what Scripture means by temporal ages or agelong times or generations, and by explaining what are merely ages, what are ages of ages, and what is simply age, and age of age, let us leave these matters to the researches of scholars and return to the theme of our chapters.

86. We know that according to Scripture there is something which transcends the age. Scripture has indicated that this thing exists but it has not specified what it is, as the following text shows: 'The Lord rules the age, and above the age, and for ever" (Exod. 15:18. LXX). There is therefore something above the age, namely the inviolate kingdom of God. For it is not right to say that the kingdom of God had a beginning or that it was preceded by ages or by time. We believe the kingdom to be the inheritance of those who are saved, their abode and their place, as the true Logos has taught us. For it is the final goal of those who long for that which is the desire of all desires. Once they have reached it they are granted rest from all movement whatsoever, as there is no longer any time or age through which they need to pass. For after passing through all things they will come to rest in God, who exists before all ages and whom the nature of ages cannot attain.

87. Even though a man attains the highest degree of ascetic practice and contemplation possible in this earthly life, yet so long as he is still in this life he will possess spiritual knowledge, the power to prophesy and the pledge of the Holy Spirit only in part, not in their fullness. But when he comes, beyond the limit of the ages, to that perfect inheritance in which those found worthy behold the truth face to face and as it really is (cf 1 Cor. 13:12), he will no longer have only a part of the fullness but will acquire by participation the whole fullness of grace. For, as St Paul says, all who are saved will attain perfect manhood, according to 'the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ' (Eph. 4:13), in whom all the treasures of wisdom and spiritual knowledge are hidden (cf Col. 2:3). When these things are revealed, what is partial will cease to exist.
Following the link below is the same passage in another English translation:

Maximus Confessor
 
Last edited:
Status
Closed