Do you believe in life after death?

Do you believe in life after death?

  • Yes

    Votes: 87 39.9%
  • No

    Votes: 91 41.7%
  • I don't know

    Votes: 40 18.3%

  • Total voters
    218
Status
Closed

Linschoten

Ad Honoris
Aug 2010
16,217
Welsh Marches
Buddhism does not believe in existence of souls (Anatta - non-substantiality). Your questions has many answers in Hinduism depending upon what a person believes.

1. There are people who would say God creates souls (He is omnipotent and create or destroy as many souls as and if he wants).
2. Others will say that soul is a part of God, arises from him and dissipates into him).
3. There are still more who would say that there is only one Supreme soul and seeing or believing in many is just an illusion.
4. Lastly there may be more people like me who would say that only Brahman (which is not a God) exists in the universe and it is unchangeable. The world and different people, different things, all are illusions.

Hinduism leaves it free for its adherents to form their own opinion. These opinions are personal, so no question of them being wrong. The opinions apply only to the persons holding them, leaving others to have their own opinion.
To be sure, these various ideas can be held as opinions, but they are either true or false and may thus either be right or wrong.
 

Cepheus

Ad Honorem
Dec 2011
2,344
P1As the poster Dreamhunter has identified human biochemistry with human consciousness, SUB P1 the entire normal humanity having same biochemistry will have the same consciousness. P2 And that does not make sense.
Amphiboly fallacy ? I think not.

Classic strawman fallacy ? Yes. I am going to posit that this is what we are dealing with. rvsakhadeo is giving the illusion that he is refuting something that someone said. The problem is, that no one said what rvsakhadeo is refuting. So, we have a strawman fallacy in play.

Since Dreamhunter's comment was not grammatically ambiguous, IMO, I don't think I can positively ID it as an amphiboly fallacy. Right ?

So, SUB P1 is a false statement linked invalidly P1 to Dreamhunter's premise. IOW, SUB P1 is false, and P1 does NOT support SUB P1. To wit: Dreamhunter never said or meant to imply what rvsakhadeo is linking him with. This is like putting words in someone's mouth. Something is stated as fact, that is not true, and then it is refuted.

To be clear, there are multiple levels of distortions involved here. Another fallacy that is in play here is a false delimma. IOW, there are only two options implied in rvsakhadeo's comments. To wit: we either have something beyond biochemistry or we have biochemistry in which we all have the same consciousness. Obviously, there are other options.

Multiple fallacies and logical errors involved. RED FLAG: weak arguments and unfair debate
 
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rvsakhadeo

Ad Honorem
Sep 2012
9,224
India
Then, pray tell us, what does.
My position is that of Hindu spiritualism, I have already stated it. Consciousness or a sense of Self or the Self/Soul itself is an independent entity. It does not emerge out of the brain. It can migrate from one dead body to another womb. Transmigration of souls is one of important tenets of Hindu spiritualism. Rebirth cases have been examined and found trustworthy. Detachment of Consciousness from the body
happens during NDE.
 

Cepheus

Ad Honorem
Dec 2011
2,344
My position is that of Hindu spiritualism, I have already stated it. Consciousness or a sense of Self or the Self/Soul itself is an independent entity. It does not emerge out of the brain. It can migrate from one dead body to another womb. Transmigration of souls is one of important tenets of Hindu spiritualism. P1 Rebirth cases have been examined and found trustworthy. P2 Detachment of Consciousness from the body
happens during NDE.
From a faith perspective I totally respect your beliefs.

However, can you understand that a history forum should not accept P1 and P2 without substantial verification ?

There are many claims of "dualism" and "immortality" made on the internet and all proponents of these claims should be ready to back up their assertions.

There have to be rules for debate or argumentation and asserting items that are not proven true as if they are fact, is generally not acceptable. Right ?

You could fix this by simply saying that there are "claims" that rebirth cases have been found trustworthy and that there are "claims" that detachment of consciousness from the body happens during NDE. You could even testify to your belief that these things happen and that you believe the research. However, you should not posture that these items are factual unless you have some solid evidence to back up these claims. That evidence has to be readily available.
 
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specul8

Ad Honorem
Oct 2016
3,447
Australia
After death is only nothing. After death, nothing is waiting for us. Only darkness and emptiness. It is even possible that our consciousness, what is called the soul, will die with us.

Ahhh ... time for Swinburne
Here, where the world is quiet;
Here, where all trouble seems
Dead winds' and spent waves' riot
In doubtful dreams of dreams;
I watch the green field growing
For reaping folk and sowing,
For harvest-time and mowing,
A sleepy world of streams.

I am tired of tears and laughter,
And men that laugh and weep;
Of what may come hereafter
For men that sow to reap:
I am weary of days and hours,
Blown buds of barren flowers,
Desires and dreams and powers
And everything but sleep.

Here life has death for neighbour,
And far from eye or ear
Wan waves and wet winds labour,
Weak ships and spirits steer;
They drive adrift, and whither
They wot not who make thither;
But no such winds blow hither,
And no such things grow here.

No growth of moor or coppice,
No heather-flower or vine,
But bloomless buds of poppies,
Green grapes of Proserpine,
Pale beds of blowing rushes
Where no leaf blooms or blushes
Save this whereout she crushes
For dead men deadly wine.

Pale, without name or number,
In fruitless fields of corn,
They bow themselves and slumber
All night till light is born;
And like a soul belated,
In hell and heaven unmated,
By cloud and mist abated
Comes out of darkness morn.

Though one were strong as seven,
He too with death shall dwell,
Nor wake with wings in heaven,
Nor weep for pains in hell;
Though one were fair as roses,
His beauty clouds and closes;
And well though love reposes,
In the end it is not well.

Pale, beyond porch and portal,
Crowned with calm leaves, she stands
Who gathers all things mortal
With cold immortal hands;
Her languid lips are sweeter
Than love's who fears to greet her
To men that mix and meet her
From many times and lands.

She waits for each and other,
She waits for all men born;
Forgets the earth her mother,
The life of fruits and corn;
And spring and seed and swallow
Take wing for her and follow
Where summer song rings hollow
And flowers are put to scorn.

There go the loves that wither,
The old loves with wearier wings;
And all dead years draw thither,
And all disastrous things;
Dead dreams of days forsaken,
Blind buds that snows have shaken,
Wild leaves that winds have taken,
Red strays of ruined springs.

We are not sure of sorrow,
And joy was never sure;
To-day will die to-morrow;
Time stoops to no man's lure;
And love, grown faint and fretful,
With lips but half regretful
Sighs, and with eyes forgetful
Weeps that no loves endure.

From too much love of living,
From hope and fear set free,
We thank with brief thanksgiving
Whatever gods may be
That no life lives for ever;
That dead men rise up never;
That even the weariest river
Winds somewhere safe to sea.

Then star nor sun shall waken,
Nor any change of light:
Nor sound of waters shaken,
Nor any sound or sight:
Nor wintry leaves nor vernal,
Nor days nor things diurnal;
Only the sleep eternal
In an eternal night.
 

specul8

Ad Honorem
Oct 2016
3,447
Australia
I'm unclear on how rebirth is supposed to work. Don't all organism have souls according to Buddhism? So are new souls constantly born out of nothingness? For example in the time of the first organism, what were all the trillions and trillions of souls that reside now a days in all the Earth's lifeforms doing? And this applies even if it's strictly for humans. Since the time of the first humans, were souls just floating and waiting for new humans to be born so they can enter a body? That would mean that there are still billions of souls who never ever possessed a human vessel since the human population is still increasing.
Not 'real' Buddhism - no soul , no God .

I can explain where all the different souls come from and are generated ... but I have a very different idea about soul . Soul isnt some type of ghost like body replica / spirit / immortal aspect . Soul is more akin to 'psyche' and this concept has been all mixed up with 'spirit' , 'ghost' , apparition, afterlife .

You can loose your soul while alive ... and become a type of 'automaton' . There are a LOT of them about !
 

Dreamhunter

Ad Honorem
Jun 2012
7,503
Malaysia
My position is that of Hindu spiritualism, I have already stated it. Consciousness or a sense of Self or the Self/Soul itself is an independent entity. It does not emerge out of the brain. It can migrate from one dead body to another womb. Transmigration of souls is one of important tenets of Hindu spiritualism. Rebirth cases have been examined and found trustworthy. Detachment of Consciousness from the body
happens during NDE.
In a spiritual-theological-metaphysical context, anything is fair game. Anyone has complete freedom to go to town with anything, basically. Based on & bounded by the doctrines of their own preferred denomination.

Physical or other empirical evidence do not form a major requirement. Only unquestioning belief & loyalty are important. And I say that in a completely neutral sense, with no intent of offence or arrogance, lest it be construed otherwise.

But in a purely mainstream scientific context, the minimum logic, reasoning & evidence requirements are immensely & profoundly more stringent. One cannot simply say something, then immediately proceed to present it as 'fact'.
 
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Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,818
New Delhi, India
To be sure, these various ideas can be held as opinions, but they are either true or false and may thus either be right or wrong.
Yeah, they cannot all be true, but people have their explanations. It makes a grand topic for discussion and that is what we have been doing for thousands of years. :)
 
Status
Closed