Do you think Communism is as bad as Nazism?

Code Blue

Ad Honorem
Feb 2015
4,441
Caribbean
I disagree. Hitler, in his various writings and speeches, made it completely clear that he wanted colonies for the German people (“living space”), all of these were taken so he looked east. Firstly he ensured the German speaking parts of Europe were united, then he, as he explained he would do, looked further east.

He was also very clear on who he wanted to remove from this new living space; the slavs living there and any Jews he came across (not sure if he publicly stated this explicitly but it has been shown in his private talks and by other prominent Nazis IIRC).
We are not disagreeing much. I am not disputing Hitler's clarity and I am not disputing his redundancy. I am disputing his sincerity. Although, I do believe him when he said he liked to use the Big Lie. lol.

I am not an expert in ethnicity, but wouldn't the Pale of Settlement be located within counties populated by Slavic peoples? He can't get to the former without running through the latter. And the Pale of Settlement is which way from Berlin? To the east?

Interesting, I wasn’t aware of this. Thanks for posting :)
I believe I first stumbled across the idea in Fritz Thyssen's, I Paid Hitler. It's a typical self-serving memoir. He was an industrialist and banker on the board of the Reichsbank. His book talks about the pre 1933 scramble in which various corporations and financiers are deciding on whether to contribute to Hitler's Party or someone else or both, etc. He seems to get all excited and gushy of the idea of this Bank of International Settlements, saying to the person who informed him of the proposal - good, now the winners and losers will have to cooperate. That's a recurring theme in my posts. There is a lot of cooperation for governments supposedly locked in an ideological death match. It's up to you if you want to believe the stuff they fed the public, Lebensraum and so forth. I have other ideas that involve following the money trail, not the political rhetoric. War is a racket.
 
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tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
14,099
Mostly using the Fighting Fascism reference as its worth highlighting that the capitalist nations were actually fighting fascism while the Communist USSR were still in a pact - were still benefiting from and supplying the Nazi regime - relevant to the OP, IMO.
Yes and no... the USSR had been fighting (not officially) fascism in Spain several years before "capitalists" finally made up their mind to do something (re Poland)
Also there were short wars with the Japanese "fascists" in 1938 and 1939
 
Sep 2019
23
Georgia, US
Yes, state directed "communism" is worse than fascism. Both are totalitarian. What makes it so, is that Marxist philosophy doesn't only relate to economics and the aim of statelessness, it relates to a whole host of other subjects. Most everyone is a victim of some "other" group that holds power over them. It is utopian, and it is an accepted worldview by a lot of academia and younger, more naïve people. Fascism, for the most part, is frowned upon. Even the idea of patriotism or nationalism is frowned upon.
 

Baldtastic

Ad Honorem
Aug 2009
5,539
Londinium
Yes and no... the USSR had been fighting (not officially) fascism in Spain several years before "capitalists" finally made up their mind to do something (re Poland)
Also there were short wars with the Japanese "fascists" in 1938 and 1939
Volunteers were going to Spain, the USSR had not committed their national force to Spain so you can't really claim that the USSR was fighting Fascist Spain, unlike France and the UK with regards to the Nazis. A bit like how you can't say the UK was fighting Spanish fascism even though there were many Brits fighting for the Republicans (Orwell being the most famous).

Not sure Japan was really fascist as much as militaristic/imperial, I'm not so sure. Anyway they weren't fighting a war but a border conflict - there is a difference, which is even more pronounced if one is trying to paint it as an ideological struggle. Soviet–Japanese border conflicts - Wikipedia

Japanese expansion in the Northeast China region bordering the Soviet Far East and disputes over the demarcation line led to growing tensions with the Soviet Union, with both sides often violating the border and accusing each other of border violations. The Soviets and Japanese, including their respective client states of Mongolia and Manchukuo, fought in a series of escalating small border skirmishes and punitive expeditions from 1935 until Soviet-Mongolian victory over the Japanese in the Battles of Khalkhin Gol in 1939 which resolved the dispute and returned the borders to status quo ante bellum.
 

Dir

Nov 2015
1,960
Kyiv
We all know well from school years that "in Germany the Slavs were considered to be representatives of the Untermensch - lower race", and her authorities planned mass extermination of the Slavs in the territory occupied by Germany.

And this has long been regarded as an axiom.

Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf in the 1920s that it was necessary to resettle German colonists on the lands of the Slavs, etc. etc. Germany of those years was firmly entrenched in our minds as the enemy of the Slavs, who brought them destruction and death.

And now I want to focuse for a moment from propaganda declarations to real facts. And that way we get what psychologists call cognitive dissonance.

Namely:

- Germany occupied and annexed Slavic Czech Republic, but for some reason granted the sovereignty of Slavic Slovakia. Why?

- Slavic Slovakia was an ally of Germany and sent her troops to war with Russia.

- Bulgaria during the WWII was an ally of Germany. There are no signs of German encroachment on the sovereignty of this Slavic state

- after the occupation of Yugoslavia, Germany gave the opportunity to the Slavs - Croats to create their own state. It sent troops to the Eastern Front.

Thus, instead of engaging in the mass extermination of the Slavs in these territories the Germans give them arms, conduct military training and create real military force which in the future can greatly prevent them from massively exterminating Slovaks, Croats and other Slavs. Moreover, hundreds of thousands of Russians (Slavs) also receive weapons from the Germans and become their combat associates. The same thing happens with the Ukrainians (Nachtigal and Roland battalions, WaffenSS Galicia division)

- Recently I came across Hitler’s statement at a meeting where he said that a number of nation-states would be created in the German-occupied part of the Soviet Union. It is clear that these would be puppet states. But why create them if the Germans really wanted to exterminate the maximum number of local Slavs?

- We heard a lot about the fact that the Germans were going to destroy part of the Slavs, and the rest - to take out "beyond the Urals". And what in practice? Everything was different. The Germans not only did not take the Slavs away from their eyes - they brought a lot of Slavs to Germany, and they worked there in the fields (like my mother) and factories. Question: where did the Germans get so many German peasants to populate the vast territories of Eastern Europe? Where did they get people to work in large fields - if the Germans were sorely lacking people even to fill a lot of vacancies in the occupation administration on Slavic lands, and they widely attracted local Slavs to that matter.

- I did not find any signs indicating Germany’s attempts to exterminate the Slavic population on an ethnic basis during the WWII. I don’t see anything in the German practice in the WWII that even closely resembles the Holodomor ’s campaign against the peaceful rural Ukrainian population held by the Russian authorities before the WWII.

- if Germany built her policy in the format of Drang nach Osten - why did she so calmly give half of Poland to the Russians after winning the Polish campaign, where the Germans suffered the main victims (the Russians lost less than 1 thousand of their soldiers KIA)?

- Why did the German occupation administration in Ukraine and in a number of other places consisted half of the Slavs?

- I guess they will tell me that in the "Slavic" regions of the Soviet Union occupied by the Germans in WWII, hunger was not uncommon, and there was starvation mortality.

Yes, it was. And what about the other side of the Eastern frontline? Recently I read Russian memoirs of the war. And there one woman writes that a third of the class where her mother was a teacher died of starvation in the winter of war. And it was in the Russian rear very far from the front line.

Moreover, in the family of my wife’s grandfather who lived in the same Russian rear in the Volga region after the father of the family was called to the front - of his 11 children 9 died of starvation. And the mortality from starvation in the Russian rear was, perhaps, much greater than in the "Slavic" lands occupied by the Germans. Why?

Maybe it's time to pay more attention to the real facts of that war and less - to loud propaganda declarations?

It remains to add that in the memoirs of the German occupation most of the aged people who talked about that events (I asked many old people a lot about that time) said that most of the Germans who stayed in their Ukrainian huts were quite sane people, and it was normal contact with residents. Among them there were several "zealous fascists" whom the Germans themselves did not like. And one of the fascists, according to the recollections of the neighbor of my dacha, when the Germans left Korsun-Shevchenkovsky where he lived at that time (late 1943?) "the normal Germans" just stabbed quietly with knives.

So it goes
 
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Dir

Nov 2015
1,960
Kyiv
Yes and no... the USSR had been fighting (not officially) fascism in Spain several years before "capitalists" finally made up their mind to do something (re Poland)
Also there were short wars with the Japanese "fascists" in 1938 and 1939
From October 1936 to January 1939, Russia delivered 648 aircraft, 347 tanks, 60 armored vehicles, 1,186 guns, 20,486 machine guns, and 497,813 rifles to Spain.

About 3 thousand Russian volunteers fought on the side of the Spanish Republic. A significant part of them fought as pilots and tankers. And I do not think that Soviet tanks and bombers killed only the "fascists". It seems to me that they killed mostly "anti-communist" Spaniards. And I think that the main goal of Russia in the Spanish War was not the fight against fascism. Her main goal was the transformation of Spain into a communist state.

I can add that dozens of Russian immigrants fought on the side of Franco.
 
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Solidaire

Ad Honorem
Aug 2009
5,636
Athens, Greece
My image or actual historical events leading up to WW2??? Please, if you're looking to dismiss my argument don't use my reliance on historical events to do so! Even better would be for you to show me another "image" with sources to support your argument. Can you find anything in the M-R Pact that shows an invasion of Poland would NOT be acceptable to the Soviets? Please share....

Emphasis mine to show your speculation. Also, the historical timeline is based on the events that occurred. Are we discussing the spark of WW2 or is a basic explanation of how historical chronology works now required?

Before I begin my response, we should stick to the timeline as it occurred rather than all your speculations above. Stop saying I'm speculating, the timeline I describe is as it happened. Pact, invasion, WW2 occurs - FACT - stop dismissing the actual chronology of events as they happened! Indeed - not only is your constant accusation very annoying to respond to, it's also a logical fallacy.

For this reason I wont bother to respond to your speculations above; although worth considering how even closer ties between the Soviets and Nazis (even closer than pre-Barbarossa, unlike the western allies) would relate back to the OP

The historical timeline has many episodes and I'm using them all to show that the Nazi invasion of Poland was actively permitted by the Soviets - if you have that source stating Hitler would invade east with/without a Soviet apact then please share. All we have to go on is the events; pact agreed which allowed for the Nazi occupation of Poland, among many other things, and then guess what - Hitler invades Poland!!!

I have never said that the Pact sparked Hitlers desire to move east. I'm stating (with primary sources) that Hitlers plan to move east was enabled by the Soviets. Again, this is a fact of 1939, and all the diplomatic agreements between the Nais and Soviets, of which both sides benefited, hence their desire for a agreement in the first place.

There's nothing else for me to say to you that I've not said already. Just read through the chronology ( the ENTIRE history of Nazi/Soviet diplomatic agreements) and the pact M-R pact specifically, note the dates of these and then look into what events happened following these agreements. Then return to the thread when you have something to share.
You're repeating the same things in this post as well, with an added grain of irritation and a pinch of rudeness. Is that really necessary?

I can simply direct you to my previous posts, as I will tell you the same things again too. But maybe I finally managed to spot where the major disagreement lies, and I think it has to do with the answer to the question: "would the Germans invade Poland if the pact with the Soviets wasn't signed?", to which I've been answering an emphatic "yes", while your answer is a determined "no" (or so I think). This is a pivotal issue, because a "yes" means that the Soviet pact simply facilitated a historic course already en route, while a "no" means that it changed history altogether, as your equation pact-invasion-WWII would hold water indeed.

I remain convinced that the invasion was due to happen regardless of how the negotiations with the Soviets would end. Throughout the spring and summer of 1939, Germany was preparing for the invasion of Poland, all the while trying through diplomacy to isolate Poland from its western allies and make the invasion as less costly for Germany as possible. Hitler wanted to avoid war with Britain and France at this point, especially Britain, but was inclined to believe that the Allied commitment to Poland was a bluff and they would again avoid war and try to reach some compromise with him, as was done with Czechoslovakia. His concern regarding the Soviets was centred on the possibility of a tripartite alliance between Britain, France and the USSR, which, in his view, would strengthen the Allied resolve to adopt a hard stance against him if he invaded Poland, and might also result in a two-front war for Germany. The Soviets were not his main concern and a deterrent that was later removed, his main concern were the western Allies and their guarantee to Poland, and the invasion was scheduled and prepared in that context. Stalin had been a wild card during the diplomatic fever of that summer, and at some point an alliance between the Soviet Union, Britain and France seemed quite probable. But for this or that reason (and there is a wide scope of reasons given by historians), Stalin played a double game and started negotiating with Hitler as well. Instead of a pact with the Allies, the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was signed. That was a major diplomatic success for the Nazis, removing a valuable ally from the British-French camp. Hitler's belief (and miscalculation) that the Allies would not go to full war if he invaded Poland was strengthened even further, now that the Soviets were out of the picture of the possible war as a western ally. The pact with the Soviets was part of the diplomatic puzzle that gave the Nazis several easy first moves in expanding the Reich, without fear of serious consequences and opposition. The pact certainly facilitated the resolve to invade Poland, but not that much more than the overall failure of Allied diplomacy up to this point to convince Hitler that he would not have his way with smaller countries unopposed, and the misapprehension that if Poland was invaded they wouldn’t go to a full-blown war.

However, all of the above are of secondary importance, both the Soviet double game and the Allied diplomatic failure. The push to the East was due to happen in any case - it was a matter of when, and of how much of the world would be dragged in it. That's what I meant when I said to you that the pact changed, at most, the date of the invasion and the onset of WWII. I find it truly impossible to believe that without the Soviet pact Hitler would have never invaded Poland, he would have abandoned his Lebensraum political centrepiece and the expansion to the East, and would have indeed become a pacifist leader devoted to his primary profession, the arts, as he had mentioned to the British ambassador a few days before the invasion. And I'm surprised that anyone might indeed accept this assumption.

Now, regarding the chronology. When I said to you that your view of the chronology is partial, I had in mind that you focus on the Nazi-Soviet pact and the pact alone. You skip all previous and following developments, keeping the image of the pact and the invasion alone, and thereby inextricably linking them. However, for the chronology leading up to the invasion to be more complete one must include several other key events, like the diplomatic buildup preceding the invasion (even the frame of the Munich agreement and the overall appeasement policy), as well as the preparations and readiness of the Nazis to invade during 1939. "The chronology" is not just about "the ENTIRE history of Nazi/Soviet diplomatic agreements" as you prompted me to read, unless you refer to the chronology of that specific agreement, while I refer to the chronology of events leading to WWII.

(Due to forum limitations, continued in following posts)
 

Solidaire

Ad Honorem
Aug 2009
5,636
Athens, Greece
A general timeline of relevant events leading to the invasion of Poland.

1938

March 13
Austria is annexed by Germany.

September 30
The Munich Agreement is signed by Germany, France, the United Kingdom, and Italy. The agreement allows Germany to annex the Czechoslovak Sudetenland area in exchange for peace in an attempt to appease Hitler.

1939

March 15
Germany occupies and annexes Bohemia and Moravia-Silesia in violation of the Munich Agreement. The Czechs do not attempt to put up any organized resistance, having lost their main defensive line with the annexation of the Sudetenland. Germany establishes the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia. The Second Czechoslovak Republic is dissolved.

March 20
German Foreign Minister Joachim von Ribbentrop delivers an oral ultimatum to Lithuania, demanding that it cede the Klaipėda Region (German name Memel) to Germany.

March 21
Hitler demands the return of the Free City of Danzig to Germany.

March 23
German–Romanian Treaty for the Development of Economic Relations between the Two Countries is signed. Germany annexes the Klaipėda Region.

March 31
The United Kingdom and France offer a guarantee of Polish independence.

April 3
Hitler orders the German military to start planning for Fall Weiss, the codename for the attack on Poland, planned to be launched on August 25, 1939.

April 18
The Soviet Union proposes a tripartite alliance with the United Kingdom and France. It is rejected.[13]

April 28
In a speech before the Reichstag, Hitler renounces the Anglo-German Naval Agreement and the German–Polish Non-Aggression Pact

May 17
Sweden, Norway, and Finland reject Germany's offer of non-aggression pacts.

May 22
The Pact of Steel, known formally as the "Pact of Friendship and Alliance between Germany and Italy", is signed by Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany. The Pact declares further cooperation between the two powers, but in a secret supplement the Pact is detailed as a military alliance.

July 10
Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain reaffirms support for Poland and makes it clear that Britain did not view Free City of Danzig as being an internal German-Polish affair and would intervene on behalf of Poland if hostilities broke out between the two countries.

August 23
The Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact is signed between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union, with secret provisions for the division of Eastern Europe – joint occupation of Poland and Soviet occupation of the Baltic States, Finland and Bessarabia. This protocol removes the threat of Soviet intervention during the German invasion of Poland.

August 25
In response to a message from Mussolini that Italy will not honor the Pact of Steel if Germany attacks Poland, Hitler delays the launch of the invasion by five days to provide more time to secure British and French neutrality.

August 30
German ultimatum to Poland concerning the Polish Corridor and the Free City of Danzig.

September 1
Without response to its ultimatum, Germany invades Poland, start of World War II (the Soviet Union invades Poland on September 17).

Timeline of events preceding World War II - Wikipedia
 
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Solidaire

Ad Honorem
Aug 2009
5,636
Athens, Greece
Regarding the fact that the invasion of Poland was decided, prepared and scheduled before the pact with the Soviets, and it would have taken place regardless

(3) Aggression against Poland. On 25 March 1939-four days after Ribbentrop pressed new demands for Danzig on the Polish Ambassador-Hitler told von Brauchitsch, Commander-in-chief of the Army, that he did not intend to solve the Polish question by force for the time being but requested that plans for that operation be developed. (R-100)

On 3 April 1939 Keitel, as Chief of the High Command of the Armed Forces, reissued over his signature the directive for the Uniform Preparation for War by the Armed Forces for 1939/40. The directive, noting that the basic principles for the sections on "Frontier Defense" and "Danzig" remained unaltered, stated that Hitler had added the following directives to "Fall Weiss":

"1. Preparations must be made in such a way that the operation can be carried out at any time from 1.9.39 onwards.

"2. The High Command of the Armed Forces has been directed to draw up a precise timetable for "Fall Weiss" and to arrange by conferences the synchronized timings between the three branches of the Armed Forces.

"3. The plans of the branches of the Armed Forces and the details for the timetable must be submitted to the OKW by 1.5.39." (C-120)

It is noteworthy that, even in April of 1939, the tentative timetable called for the invasion of Poland to be carried out at any time from 1 September 1939 onwards.

About a week later, an order signed by Hitler was circulated to the highest commands of the Army, Navy and Air Force. This confirmed Keitel's directive to prepare for three eventualities: "Frontier Defense", "Fall Weiss", and the Annexation of Danzig. Annex II contained further instructions for "Fall Weiss". In the first paragraph, headed "Political Hypotheses and Aims", it was stated that should Poland adopt a threatening attitude toward Germany, a "final settlement" would be necessary notwithstanding the pact with Poland. "The aim is then to destroy Polish military strength . . ."

It was further stated that the Free State of Danzig would be incorporated into Germany at the outbreak of the conflict, at the latest. The directive continued: "Policy aims at limiting the war to Poland, and this is considered possible in view of the internal crisis in France and British restraint as a result of this."

The general political background against which the Armed Forces were to work having thus been set down, the later paragraphs outlined the tasks and operational objectives of the three branches of the Armed Forces. It was also decreed that a "camouflaged or open ('general' added in ink) mobilization will not be ordered before D-Day 1 at the latest possible moment", and further that the "preparations for the opening of operations are to be made in such a way that-without waiting for the planned assembly of mobilized units-positions can be taken up immediately by the first available troops." (C-120)

On 10 May an order signed by Hitler promulgated his instructions for the seizure of economic installations in Poland and directed the commanders-in-chief of the three branches of the armed forces to report by 1 August 1939 on the measures taken in consequence of these instructions. (C-120)

On 23 May 1939 Hitler called a meeting of his military leaders at the Reich Chancellery. Keitel was at the meeting; Jodl was not, but Warlimont (also from the Planning Department of OKW) was. Hitler announced the necessity of a war against Poland, not over Danzig, but in order to acquire living space in the East. he recognized the possibility that this would provoke a war against France and England, but the Wehrmacht was instructed to prepare detailed plans. (L-79)

A directive dated 22 June 1939, signed by Keitel as Chief of the OKW, indicates an advanced stage of preparation. On the basis of particulars already available from the Navy, Army, and Air Force, he stated, he had submitted to Hitler a "preliminary timetable" for "Fall Weiss." The Fuehrer was reported to be in substantial agreement with the intentions submitted by the three branches; he had also made suggestions with regard to the need to camouflage the scheduled maneuvers "in order not to disquiet the population," and had commented on the disposition of an SS Artillery Regiment. (C-126)

Two days later, Keitel issued instructions for further study on two specific problems: the capture, in undamaged condition, of bridges over the Vistula; and the possible adverse effect of Navy mining in Danzig Bay on the element of surprise in the Army's attack against the bridge at Dirschau, southeast of Danzig. (C-120)

On 22 August 1939, Hitler called together at Obersalzberg the Supreme Commanders of the three branches of the armed forces, as well as the lower ranking Commanding Generals (Oberbefehlshaber), and announced his decision to attack Poland near dawn on 26 August. Keitel was at this meeting. (L-3; 798-PS; 1014-PS)

Three documents reporting this meeting have been uncovered: the text of one, L-3, overlaps the contents of the other two, 798-PS and 1014-PS; the latter two appear to be complementary, 798-PS being a record of a morning speech, and 1014-PS of an afternoon speech. Violent and abusive language appears in both L-3 and 798-PS. That Hitler made, at a minimum, the following points, appears from all of them:

1. The decision to attack Poland was made last spring. (L-3; 798-PS)

2. The aim of the war in Poland is to destroy the Polish armed forces, rather than to reach a fixed line. (L-3; 1014-PS)

3. The attack will start early Saturday morning, 26 August (L-3; 1014-PS)

4. A spurious cause for starting the war will be devised by German propaganda. It is a matter of indifference whether it is plausible or not. The world will not question the victor (L-3; 1014-PS). The text in L-3 further describes the pretext to be used to start the war: "I'll let a couple of companies, dressed in Polish uniforms, make an assault in Upper Silesia or in the Protectorate."

A handwritten entry in the diary of Jodl, at that time Chief of the Operations Department of the OKW, confirms that the time for the attack on Poland had been fixed for 0430 on 26 August 1939. (1780-PS)

Avalon Project : Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression - Volume 2 Chapter XVI Part 4

(continued)
 

Solidaire

Ad Honorem
Aug 2009
5,636
Athens, Greece
The anxiety and concern that the governments of Poland and
Great Britain were feeling at that time appears to have been
justified. During the same week, on 3 April, an order,
signed by Keitel, emanated from the High Command of the
Armed Forces. It is dated Berlin, 3 April 1939. The subject
is "Directive for the Armed Forces 1939/40." The order
reads:

"Directive for the uniform preparation of war by the Armed
Forces for 1939/40 is being reissued.

"Part I (Frontier Defense) and Part III (Danzig) will
be issued in the middle of April. Their basic
principles remain unchanged.

"Part II 'Fall Weiss' [the code name for the operation
against Poland] is attached herewith. The signature of
the Fuehrer will be appended later.

"The Fuehrer has added the following Directives to
'Fall Weiss':

"1. Preparations must be made in such a way that the
operations can be carried out at any time from 1
September 1939 onwards.

"2. The High Command of the Armed Forces has been
directed to draw up a precise time-table for 'Fall
Weiss' and to arrange by conferences the synchronized
timings between the three branches of the armed forces.

"3. The plan of the branches of the Armed Forces and
the details for the time-table must be submitted to the
OKW by 1 May 1939." (C-120)

This order was distributed to the OKH, OKM, and OKW.

Another document, dated 11 April, and signed by Hitler, is
annexed. It reads:

"I shall lay down in a later directive the future tasks
of the Armed Forces and the preparations to be made in
accordance with these for the conduct of the war.

"Until that directive comes into force, the Armed
Forces must be prepared for the following
eventualities:

"I. Safeguarding the frontiers of the German Reich, and
protection against surprise air attacks.

"II. 'Fall Weiss'

"III. The annexation of Danzig.

"Annex IV contains regulations for the exercise of
military authority in East Prussia in the event of a
warlike development." (C-120)

Not only were military preparations being carried out
throughout these months and weeks, but economic and every
other kind of preparation was being made for war at the
earliest moment.

This period of preparation, up to May 1939, concluded with
the conference in the Reichschancellery on 23 May. The
report of this meeting is known as the Schmundt Minutes (L-
79). In his address to the conference Hitler cried out for
lebensraum, and said that Danzig was not the dispute at
all. It was a question of expanding their living room in the
east, and he said that the decision had been taken to attack
Poland.

Goering, Raeder and Keitel, among many others, were present.
The following is a significant paragraph:

"If there were an alliance of France, England and
Russia against Germany, Italy and Japan, I would be
constrained to attack England and France with a few
annihilation blows. The Fuehrer doubts the possibility
of a peaceful settlement with England." (L-79)

So that, not only has the decision been taken definitely to
attack Poland, but almost equally definitely to attack
England and France.

C. Final Preparations: June-September 1939

(1) Final Preparations of the Armed Forces. A precise
timetable for the attack had been called for. On 22 June
1939 it was ready. It provided as follows:

"The Supreme Command of the Armed Forces has submitted
to the Fuehrer and Supreme Commander a preliminary
timetable' for 'Fall Weiss' based on the particulars so
far available from the Navy, Army and Air Force.
Details concerning the days preceding the attack and
the start of the attack were not included in this
timetable.

''The Fuehrer and the Supreme Commander is, in the
main, in agreement with the intentions of the Navy,
Army and Air Force and made the following comments on
individual points:

"1. In order not to disquiet the population by calling
up reserves on a larger scale than usual for the
maneuvers scheduled for 1939, as is intended, civilian
establishments, employers or other private persons who
make enquiries should be told that men are being called
up for the autumn maneuvers and for the exercise units
it is intended to form for these maneuvers.

"It is requested that directions to this effect be
issued to subordinate establishments." (C-126)


All this became relevant later, when the German government
made allegations of mobilization on the part of the Poles.
This order shows that in June the Germans were mobilizing,
only doing so secretly. The order continues:

"For reasons of security the clearing of hospitals in
the area of the frontier which the Supreme Command of
the Army proposed should take place from the middle of
July, must not be carried out." (C-126)

The order is signed by Keitel.

A short letter, dated 2 August, which is attached to that
order, reads in part:

"Attached are Operational Directions for the employment
of U-Boats which are to be sent out to the Atlantic, by
way of precaution, in the event of the intention to
carry out 'Fall Weiss' remaining unchanged. F.O. U-
Boats [Doenitz] is handing in his Operation Orders by
12 August." (C-126)

Another letter, dated 27 July, contains orders for the Air
and Sea Forces for the occupation of the German Free City of
Danzig. It provides:

"The Fuehrer and Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces
has ordered the reunion of the German Free State of
Danzig with the Greater German Reich. The Armed Forces
must occupy the Danzig Free State immediately in order
to protect the German population. There will be no
hostile intention on the part of Poland so long as the
occupation takes place without the force of arms." (C-
30)

The letter then sets out how the occupation is to be
effected. All this again becomes more relevant in the
subsequent discussion of the diplomatic action of the last
few days before the war, when Germany was making specious
offers for the settlement of the question by peaceful means.
This letter is evidence that the decision had been taken,
and that nothing would change that decision. During July,
right up to the time of the war, steps were being taken to
arm the population of Danzig and to prepare them to take
part in the coming occupation.

The reports which were coming back almost daily during this
period from Mr. Shepherd, British Consul-General in Danzig,
to the British Foreign Minister, and published in the
British Blue Book, show the kind of thing that was
happening. The report dated 1 July 1939 reads as follows:

"Yesterday morning four German army officers in mufti
arrived here by night express from Berlin to organize
Danzig Hemwehr.

"All approaches to hills and dismantled fort, which
constitute a popular public promenade on western fringe of
the city, have been closed with barbed wire and
'verboten' notices.

"The walls surrounding the shipyards bear placards:
'Comrades keep your mouths shut lest you regret
consequence.' "Master of British steamer 'High
Commissioner Wood' whilst he was roving Koenigsberg
from 28th June to 30th June, observed considerable
military activity, including extensive shipment of
camouflaged covered lorries and similar material by
small coasting vessels. On 28th June four medium-sized
steamers, loaded with troops, lorries, field kitchens,
etc., left Koenigsberg, ostensibly returning to Hamburg
after maneuvers, but actually proceeding to Stettin."
(TC-71).

And again, as another example, the report dated 10 July
states:

"The same informant, whom I believe to be reliable,
advises me that on 8th July he personally saw about
thirty military lorries with East Prussian license
numbers on the Bischofsberg, where numerous field
kitchens had been placed along the hedges. There were
also eight large anti-aircraft guns in position, which
he estimated as being of over 3-inch caliber, and three
six-barreled light anti-aircraft machine guns. There
were about 500 men drilling with rifles, and the whole
place is extensively fortified with barbed wire." (TC-
71).

Shofar FTP Archives: imt/nca/nca-01/nca-01-09-aggression-08

(continued)