Do you think it’s been Animal Holocaust & Slavery?

Jun 2016
1,863
England, 200 yards from Wales
Well that's discrimination. Rocks have feelings too.
But compare, kick a cat, the cat will hurt, squawk (and you may be prosecuted for cruelty)
Kick a rock, the rock doesn't care, nobody cares, except you will hurt and squawk (and you may be mocked for silliness).
 

Naomasa298

Forum Staff
Apr 2010
35,457
T'Republic of Yorkshire
But compare, kick a cat, the cat will hurt, squawk (and you may be prosecuted for cruelty)
Kick a rock, the rock doesn't care, nobody cares, except you will hurt and squawk (and you may be mocked for silliness).
How do you know the rock doesn't care? Just because it can't talk - if we exclude things just because they can't talk, mute people would never have gained any rights at all.
 
Jun 2016
1,863
England, 200 yards from Wales
How do you know the rock doesn't care? Just because it can't talk - if we exclude things just because they can't talk, mute people would never have gained any rights at all.
But there are many unmute people, find a single unmute rock. They simply don't have the circuitry I fear. (To react at all, not just talk).
Mind, I'm not condoning wanton cruelty to rocks, they should only be made into beautiful statues and buildings, or is that vivisection?
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
22,722
SoCal
If we should treat animals as deserving the same rights as humans then how about responsibilities and standards of conduct? Should we imprison or execute animals that murder other animals, like cats and bears?
No, because we don't execute mentally ill humans for killing other humans.
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
22,722
SoCal
I see that there’s a few threads on this forum on the comparing the Holocaust & slavery, so now I’m creating a thread comparing them both to the situation of animals, past & present.

The term history includes today of course since time is all connected isn’t it. The term ‘holocaust’ is mostly if not almost exclusively used in reference to the Nazi genocide that was targeted at Jews, however I would consider slavery to be a form of a Holocaust as well in that while it may not be direct killing most of the time, it still deprives the lives & potential of groups & individuals. So I actually use the term Holocaust more broadly than just referring to the Nazi one to include any systematic oppression of groups & individuals.

When comparing the Holocaust to slavery, it’s important to keep in mind that slavery lasted much longer than the Holocaust, it seems to be as old as agriculture or at least settled living itself. New World slavery seems to have been the most systematic, large scale & de-humanizing form of slavery during history, it had literally turned one of our species’ major divisions into livestock. Furthermore, the Holocaust was a direct extermination project, whereas slavery was primarily social & economical oriented.

I’ve come across the term ‘Black Holocaust’ & ‘Native American or Indian Holocaust’ several times in reference to the unfortunate historical experiences of African & Native Americans, so as a biologist & nature-enthusiast the term gets me thinking about the situation of animals as well.

Comparing the situation of animals to slavery & the Holocaust doesn’t seem to be new, it’s been noted throughout history as well, but mostly during the development of animal rights as a formal issue during the last century. Animal Rights enthusiasts seem to like referencing & comparing human slavery to that of animals, & I think for good reason for there are indeed many similarities & analogies & thus much to learn from.

Certainly the situation for animals as well as people today can be described as utopic compared to before animal rights emerged as a formal subject, when there was virtually no such thing as animal rights, & combined with both animals’ lowly reputation among humanity as well as the lack of science & technology to reveal animal sensitivity & capability, must have all meant that it was both unpleasant as well as dangerous to be an animal throughout history, like it was for African Americans during slavery.
but there’s still lots of progress to be made for animal as well as human rights.

Sure, humans as well as animals have long hunted each other, but that’s quite distinct from any systematic oppression of them isn’t it? & while there’s plenty of archaeological evidence of animal hunting, there barely seems to be any of animal as well as human slavery prior to the Neolithic. So indeed hunting is quite very distinct from slavery, though slaves are indeed often caught by hunting, but the main point is that hunting & hunted is mostly a matter of chance, response & being able to escape or not, indeed that’s been a major driver for evolution, whereas slavery is an unnatural long term condition which isn’t found in nature & in which nobody is evolved for.

So do you think that humanity is an animal Holocaust? If so, since when? The agricultural or Neolithic revolution, or the birth of humanity itself? Is it even inevitable as long as humans & animals are together?

How would you compare the situation of animals to that of slavery & the Holocaust? How would you compare the situation & oppression of animals to that of humans, past & present?

& to the big question, do you think animals should have equal rights to humans, along the lines of post-enlightenment, that of life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, equality, & justice, as well as the fundamental freedoms I.e. of suffering, deprivation etc. If you do, it’s important to keep in mind that there are of course important differences, so just how far do you think natural rights should or can apply to animals?

Also what do you think of my avatar in reference to this?
This article offers a cognitive ability-based scheme for animal rights:


So, animals with greater cognitive ability are going to have more rights than animals with lesser cognitive ability. Of course, this also applies to humans right now. I mean, human children have less rights than human adults have because human children--at least generally--have less cognitive ability than humans adults have. This is also why criminal sentencing for juveniles is less severe than for adults.