Does the glorification of Latvian Waffen SS Legion mean the glorification of Nazism?

Apr 2011
6,626
Sarmatia
#11
Though the Galizien Division has not been found guilty of any war crimes by any war tribunal or commission, numerous unproven accusations of impropriety have been leveled at the division and at particular members of the division from a variety of sources.
Galizien Division were good soldiers who wanted freedom for their country. I wouldnt condemn them however it is hard to glorify them.
 
Oct 2012
8,545
#12
As a country that sided with the one power in the world worse than Nazi Germany, Communist Russia, I don't think we have much of a place to criticize others choices of allies. At the end of the day, necessity is the ultimate moral imperative. The eastern Europeans who, in their struggle against Communist, joined the SS or other German units, have every right to be proud of their efforts, just as the Finns do; and we in the west should honor their sacrifice against the evil empire that, a few short years later, became our common enemy. Their alliances were merely alliances of convenience, no worse than our association with the USSR.
 
Sep 2014
77
Kingdom of Galicia–Volhynia
#13
Galizien Division were good soldiers who wanted freedom for their country. I wouldnt condemn them however it is hard to glorify them.
I agree. I was trying to stay factual in my statements and did not mean to infer that I think they should all be condemned. Galizien soldiers were freedom fighters with noble goals for Ukraine, but because of Volyn and others incidents, I have a hard time viewing them in the perfect light of heroes.
 
Jun 2013
2,325
Siberia, deep in taiga
#14
The fascism is on the rise in Europe and one of its most insidious claims to legitimacy is positioning itself on the same history shelf as communism. I'm not advocating communism in any way but someone should explain that communism is a noble albeit badly researched idea gone horribly wrong while fascism was an evil idea gone splendidly successfull untill crushed, bound and gagged.
 
Jun 2013
2,325
Siberia, deep in taiga
#15
The Norwegians, French or Dutch are not gloryfying their SS veterans. However I understand that Baltic states were in different position.
There is obviously a difference in the way countries in Eastern Europe and Western Europe view the war, as you have written in your first post. There is no excuse for this type of thing though. Germany's Baltic and Ukrainian volunteers not only fought against the Red Army but also commited atrocities against Jewish, Russian and Polish civilians.

Ukrainian nationalists served as guards in death camps such as Sobibor and also fought for the Germans in the Warsaw Uprising. This makes the present anti-Russian alliance between the Polish right and the ideological successors of the Ukrainian nationalists all the more unpleasant.

It is worth noting, however, that the Ukrainian people as a whole suffered terribly from both sides. Historical revisionism is to Eastern European politicians what tax rises and spending cuts are to Western lot. For another example of selective historical memory, I humbly direct you to the latest entry here:Czarny Kot
 
Oct 2012
8,545
#16
The fascism is on the rise in Europe and one of its most insidious claims to legitimacy is positioning itself on the same history shelf as communism. I'm not advocating communism in any way but someone should explain that communism is a noble albeit badly researched idea gone horribly wrong while fascism was an evil idea gone splendidly successfull untill crushed, bound and gagged.
Communism is the most vile and evil ideology ever proposed in the history of mankind. Its goal, even in the most academic sense, was a systematic denial of liberty and property to every person on earth.

Plus, fascism is a lesser evil than communism, if for no other reason than because fascist aspirations were regional and communist aspirations were global.
 
Apr 2011
6,626
Sarmatia
#17
The fascism is on the rise in Europe and one of its most insidious claims to legitimacy is positioning itself on the same history shelf as communism. I'm not advocating communism in any way but someone should explain that communism is a noble albeit badly researched idea gone horribly wrong while fascism was an evil idea gone splendidly successfull untill crushed, bound and gagged.
You Russians always mix Fascism and Nazism and make them one. You guys right now have the fascism in Russia and you are not able to realise this fact.
There is not big difference between the Spain of Franco, Italy of Mussolini and Russia of Putin.
 
Jun 2013
2,325
Siberia, deep in taiga
#18
As a country that sided with the one power in the world worse than Nazi Germany, Communist Russia, I don't think we have much of a place to criticize others choices of allies. At the end of the day, necessity is the ultimate moral imperative. The eastern Europeans who, in their struggle against Communist, joined the SS or other German units, have every right to be proud of their efforts, just as the Finns do; and we in the west should honor their sacrifice against the evil empire that, a few short years later, became our common enemy. Their alliances were merely alliances of convenience, no worse than our association with the USSR.
Hmm, the problem that after WWII all these collaborators would have been exterminated, anyway, though they surely kept better prospects in their minds. Also, Hitler considered Lithuanians as untermench in difference with Estonians or Latvians who had no infamous connection to Poles in his eyes due to Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. That is why Lithuanian Waffen-SS was organized only in 1943 when Germans lacked manpower and when all Lithuanian Jews (190 000) were already killed.

This topic is solely about Lithuanian Waffen-SS, but since you got astray with "all Eastern Europeans fighting against evil empire USSR", I have to remind that a week or so ago a newly-elected president of Ukrain decided to whitewash crimes of Ukrainian Rebellious Army who were butchering everyone in the West of Ukraine. A century away, and Hitler will be glorified in West just like Napoleon is today.
 
Jun 2013
2,325
Siberia, deep in taiga
#19
You Russians always mix Fascism and Nazism and make them one. You guys right now have the fascism in Russia and you are not able to realise this fact.
There is not big difference between the Spain of Franco, Italy of Mussolini and Russia of Putin.
I do not think you lived in the countries you mentioned. I don't know what life was under Franco or Mussolini but believe me a proven fact is that there is more freedom of speech in Russia than on Historum. If Historum is mirroring your way of life, then you should definitely move in Russia, though you might be fine with what you have.:)