Education around the world

Louise C

Ad Honorem
Jan 2011
7,239
Southeast England
#21
Leave school at age 16? I think given our nature that sounds good, but what kind of work can these young people expect? We have a Job Core where young people can live and work and pick up some more education. This seems the most reasonable to me. I don't think it is natural for young people to remain as children in their parent's home, beyond the age of 16, but education and economics makes this necessary. However, Job Core youth are unlikely to become higher education students, or to realize high wage employment, so what is the value of their lives?
Well, when I was young it was commonplace for children to leave school at 16, the majority did. There were plenty of jobs for people with few or no educational qualifications, 5 O levels (what I had) was considered perfectly adequate for a job in the public library for instance. And you could become a student nurse with only O levels. And there were lots of jobs going in factories, shops, offices, etc. If you could type you could get a job anywhere.

But nowadays those that don't do A levels usually do some kind of vocational training, in some subject or other. The son of a friend of mine is doing an electricians apprenticeship course for instance.

Our oldest son left home when he was 21, but I would have been quite happy if he had stayed with us for longer. I should think our two younger sons will
be with us at least until then, especially if they go to university. I'm in no hurry for them to leave,the happiest years of my life were when all three of them were at home.
 

Rosi

Historum Emeritas
Jul 2008
6,242
#22
It's also worth noting the exact, ridiculous scope of Korean student's after school private education. Many students attend private classes until 10 o'clock at night, and the only reason they stop then is because classes running past midnight were so common and problematic that the Korean government legislated a cut off time. Some private schools still try to skirt this mandate.
This happens in India as well (the private classes charge a bomb) and I've suffered this too. I contemplated taking my life on more than one occasion because of the sheer madness of it :crying::crying::crying:. Those teachers were ugly ogres who all deserve to burn in hell for eternity and never will their sins be atoned for. :evil::evil::evil: But I blame the parents the most. They seriously need to back off and get a life.

The information about Chinese schools made me laugh. Class sizes approaching 70 are very common. The children get a 20 minute break for lunch and their normal school day runs from 7 in the morning until 9 at night.

There are few computers available to them and they are strongly encouraged not to, or should I say forbidden, to use the computer when they are at home. When a Chinese student sees an unattended computer they are drawn to it like flies to honey.

The teacher controls their entire life and even how their parents raise them. There are no outside activities that encourage anything other than rote learning. The entire system is a preposterous example of how to teach and learn.
Wow, that's actually worse than India.
 

Fox

Ad Honorem
Oct 2011
3,857
Korea
#23
Children being schooled late into the night is shocking? How does this fit any kind of family value? I am sure it does. I assume this would fit in with family honor? Or is it like say, Los Vegas, where so many parents work nights, it is practical to have night schools for these families.
It fits into family values because the parents genuinely believe that the sacrifices (both of the child's time and the parents money) will pay dividends (both for the child and the family) later in life, not in terms of honor but in a purely pragmatic financial sense.

It is not like your Los Vegas example; many mothers stay at home, and private classes are sufficiently expensive that utilizing them as a form of daycare (nightcare?) would be madness. Competition for the top universities is fierce, and if spending four or five extra hours a night drilling math and English can help a child get the extra one or two percent on a standardized test they need to be competitive, then parents are willing to drop tens of millions of won (tens of thousands of United States dollars) for the sake of it, even if it means the husband pulling massive overtime, or even leaving his family and moving to another country where he can earn more. Some Korean men are lucky to see their child once a year, not because they don't love them, but because they love them enough to make what they think is a necessary sacrifice. Their methodology may be misguided, but their motives are pure and even admirable.
 
Nov 2010
1,254
Bordeaux
#24
Frog33inUK, the schedule changes? It is hard to image how people live with that. Dropping history is not a good idea! I strongly believe to have a good perspective on life, we need history. However, with us becoming one world, who should decide what history should be taught? Oh, oh another thread.
No, I meant school hours in Secondary School aren't fixed, like 9 to 4 everyday for every class.
Each class has its own timetable, so for example, you can have Monday 8-5, Tuesday 9-5, Wednesday 8-4, Thursday 8-5 and Friday 8-3.
Another class will have a slightly different timetable, etc
Sometimes school days can last until 6, although it was quite common when I was in school, it seems that it is not the case as much today.
It wasn't rare for Science sections in Lycée (16 to 18 year olds) to have class on Saturday mornings, but I think this is no longer the case.

I agree tha History should be compulsory, although it depends how your teach it.
If it's about self-centered national hagiography, then there isn't much point.
If it is about a broad, international approach then it will be a lot more beneficial, in my opinion.

When you sayd "with us becoming the world" do you mean that borders no longer exist as they used to, thanks to the internet ?
If it's not that, then who is "us" ?
 

athena

Ad Honorem
Jan 2010
4,959
Eugene, Oregon
#25
It fits into family values because the parents genuinely believe that the sacrifices (both of the child's time and the parents money) will pay dividends (both for the child and the family) later in life, not in terms of honor but in a purely pragmatic financial sense.

It is not like your Los Vegas example; many mothers stay at home, and private classes are sufficiently expensive that utilizing them as a form of daycare (nightcare?) would be madness. Competition for the top universities is fierce, and if spending four or five extra hours a night drilling math and English can help a child get the extra one or two percent on a standardized test they need to be competitive, then parents are willing to drop tens of millions of won (tens of thousands of United States dollars) for the sake of it, even if it means the husband pulling massive overtime, or even leaving his family and moving to another country where he can earn more. Some Korean men are lucky to see their child once a year, not because they don't love them, but because they love them enough to make what they think is a necessary sacrifice. Their methodology may be misguided, but their motives are pure and even admirable.
I see this motive in some North American parents as well. Not all of them, and may be not the intensity of China, but it seems to me we are pressuring young children to preform like college students. I know I am caught up in this, in the form of buying educational toys, and encouraging my grandchildren to use the computer. I have my two year granddaughter on the computer, and my 4 year old great grandson doing the computer and math. I take them on nature walks, thinking I am preparing them for science, but also a love of nature. I am so afraid for their future, because the demands for education have gotten so high, and our large population with technology, means many are being closed out of a higher standard of living.

I do not know how our youth can compete with Asian students, with 3 months taken off for the summer. So much is lost over the summer months, and the teachers must go over what the children learned before leaving school, so that is more wasted time.

I think large segments of our population are left out of the loop. We indulge our children and many don't think education is important, but just something the law makes them do. So we might be dividing between those who believe education is everything, and those who are clueless or see higher education as out of reach for economic reasons, so they don't bother with the effort?

What will happen to the large percentage of non competitive people? Our homeless population is getting quit large, and their numbers are likely to increase. My experience with them at Occupy was not pleasant, as they had no understanding of the role of leadership, or for having social rules, or for preparing themselves for employment. Occupied turned out as I feared, people believing things are unfair, and in general, pretty clueless about how things work. They could be organized for unruly marches, but not much else.
 

athena

Ad Honorem
Jan 2010
4,959
Eugene, Oregon
#26
No, I meant school hours in Secondary School aren't fixed, like 9 to 4 everyday for every class.
Each class has its own timetable, so for example, you can have Monday 8-5, Tuesday 9-5, Wednesday 8-4, Thursday 8-5 and Friday 8-3.
Another class will have a slightly different timetable, etc
Sometimes school days can last until 6, although it was quite common when I was in school, it seems that it is not the case as much today.
It wasn't rare for Science sections in Lycée (16 to 18 year olds) to have class on Saturday mornings, but I think this is no longer the case.

I agree tha History should be compulsory, although it depends how your teach it.
If it's about self-centered national hagiography, then there isn't much point.
If it is about a broad, international approach then it will be a lot more beneficial, in my opinion.

When you sayd "with us becoming the world" do you mean that borders no longer exist as they used to, thanks to the internet ?
If it's not that, then who is "us" ?
Thank you for correcting me. Our college classes are also like that. I thought you meant all grade levels, and that would be really crazy making. I wonder why we break up higher education as we do?

Yes, I mean the a reality without borders, because in truth that is the case. Britain's economy was highly dependent on colonies. I can not imagine how it is doing so well without exploiting them. Pushing our consumer economy on the rest of the world, doesn't seem highly intelligent to me, because the world can not support us if we all consume as much as US citizens. If gas goes over $5 a gallon in the US, people might be having second thoughts about the good of capitalism verses nationalizing oil, and then hopefully we will consider what we have done in the effort to force all countries to leave our oil companies in control of their oil. Which brings us to the teaching of history, doesn't it?

I think we are about to hit a few walls, and need to think carefully about where we are going and how education will meet new demands with a world population that can not be sustained at the standard of living US citizens have taken for granted.
 

athena

Ad Honorem
Jan 2010
4,959
Eugene, Oregon
#27
Well, when I was young it was commonplace for children to leave school at 16, the majority did. There were plenty of jobs for people with few or no educational qualifications, 5 O levels (what I had) was considered perfectly adequate for a job in the public library for instance. And you could become a student nurse with only O levels. And there were lots of jobs going in factories, shops, offices, etc. If you could type you could get a job anywhere.

But nowadays those that don't do A levels usually do some kind of vocational training, in some subject or other. The son of a friend of mine is doing an electricians apprenticeship course for instance.

Our oldest son left home when he was 21, but I would have been quite happy if he had stayed with us for longer. I should think our two younger sons will
be with us at least until then, especially if they go to university. I'm in no hurry for them to leave,the happiest years of my life were when all three of them were at home.
I think your description of how things were is ideal. It would be wonderful if people with little education could get jobs as we once could. I came of age in L.A. California in the early 1960's and remember going to the employment to get a job and walking out with my choice of a job, applying for the job and going to work the next day. I lost my first job, and immediately had another one, by following the same process. I thought things would always be like this. People didn't even need to know how to read, or how to speak English. There was work for everyone.

Now I am afraid our future will not be as good, although with our technology we could have a very high standard of living, but I don't think we are asking the right questions to figure out how to share a high standard of living with everyone, and education that is preparing our young to be products for industry is not preparing them to resolve the problems we face. It is this education that has lead to Occupy. Leading a march of protest is not equal to knowing how to resolve problems. Cut off our welfare and food stamps and see what happens.
 
Last edited:
Nov 2010
4,253
3rd rock from Sol
#28
This happens in India as well (the private classes charge a bomb) and I've suffered this too. I contemplated taking my life on more than one occasion because of the sheer madness of it :crying::crying::crying:. Those teachers were ugly ogres who all deserve to burn in hell for eternity and never will their sins be atoned for. :evil::evil::evil: But I blame the parents the most. They seriously need to back off and get a life.
I am going through that right now. :zany:

Guess what....?

My board exams next friday!! Lol I swear I do not even know the chapter names! :sad:

But I blame the parents the most. They seriously need to back off and get a life.
Yep. My mom needs to back off and get a life :( :sick:
 

athena

Ad Honorem
Jan 2010
4,959
Eugene, Oregon
#29
I am going through that right now. :zany:

Guess what....?

My board exams next friday!! Lol I swear I do not even know the chapter names! :sad:



Yep. My mom needs to back off and get a life :( :sick:
There was a time when a woman's children were her life and then her grandchildren. We also taught our young to respect their elders, and even appreciate what they were given. This custom benefited human greatly, and perhaps this is the most important thing for us to learn.
 

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