Emanuela Orlandi or Mirella Gregori disapearence solved?

Feb 2012
3,767
Portugal
#11
It's probable ... in Italy we have suspected Vatican environments since the beginning. But to suspect doesn't mean to be able to prove something.

let's be clear: that a teen disappears is not a great event, teens disappear everyday around the world. It's not so common that teens disappear after getting in touch with the Vatican where there are the headquarters of the Catholic Church which should be the safest place in the world for everybody ... Christian charity doesn't contemplate the possibility to kidnap and kill a teen ... [at least this is what we usually think ...].

A factor which is affecting this matter is the recent problems of the Catholic Church with pedophilia. They have tent to hide the problem, not to face it, making all public: let's sacrifice the victims to the silence to save the image of the Church ...

This has generated a not irrelevant mistrust towards the Vatican.
And not only the kidnapping of the two girls shows similarities but the Italian article in wikipedia mentions other girls being lured by the same, or someone similar to, the man that approached Orlandi, and showing up at the event he was advertising looking for an interview. (event to which he was in truth unrelated)
 
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Feb 2012
3,767
Portugal
#12
Nothing new...French politician and writer Pierre Manuel (later executed by guillotine) in his completely forgotten book La police de Paris devoilee ''[ 1789] ( The Parisan police exposed ) mentioned sexual crimes committed by clergy...
This kind of crimes must date from way back and probably ignored in previous times.
 

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
24,138
Lago Maggiore, Italy
#13
The problem of the case of Orlandi is that there could be 4 lines of inquiry to follow and this makes the matter not easy ...

1. Calvi and IOR [was Orlandi in some way connected with what happened to Calvi? Was she connected with who knew about IOR?]
2. The aggression to John Paul II [there were clues that someone kidnapped her to obtain the liberation of Agca]
3. The band of Magliana?
4. Pedophilia?

It's a matter of fact that all the four options are credible. If you ask to an Italian about IOR and Calvi you will hear about Banco Ambrosiano ... if you ask about Agca you will hear the most curious conspiracy theories, if you ask about the band of Magliana ... you will obtain no answer [you know Italians ...], if you ask about pedophilia and Vatican ... it will depend on ... if the Italian you are talking to is Catholic or not.
 

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
24,138
Lago Maggiore, Italy
#15
Calvi who was involved with the famous massonic lodge P2. The Blog Di Emanuela Orlandi , also in Italian, seems to cover several of these options and commands some reading.
Lodge P2 [Propaganda 2] is a not easy matter to understand because it was embedded in a really complicated moment of the Republic. There were environments where they wanted to stop an eventual Communist Revolution [or a democratic arrival to the government of the Communist Party] and the so called "Democratic Renaissance" [the charta of P2] was a kind of political plan to change the Republic to make it immune to such a threat. A curiosity of this plan was that its core was the control of the mass medias ... in the lodge P2 there was a guy called Silvio Berlusconi who would have obtained the power just thanks to his control of commercial mass medias. But it was just a coincidence.

Regarding Calvi, what we can understand is that he was involved in a tremendous loss of money [billions and billions] and that [it seems] he had to keep IOR [Vatican bank] safe and far from the losses. Rumors ... history is not made by rumors. Anyway it's interesting to note that Roberto Calvi is reminded as the "Banker of God".

A historical fact is that in 2016 an Italian Justice Court decided to renounce to go on with the investigations about the "suicide" of Calvi claiming, among other things, that there was no cooperation by the Vatican regarding Marcinkus [and other obscure personage of those years].
 
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Feb 2012
3,767
Portugal
#16
That's very interesting info and on top of that there was the Cold War with the Vatican having a key role in Reagan's strategy. The documentary Enigma speaks of the Pope's travel to Jugoslavia and the approach to Poland. According to an article in the Blog Di Emanuela Orlandi the money lent to the Vatican came from the Mob itself via the BDM and never returned but was used to finance the illegal union in Communist Poland "Solidarity". It also says something about Maurizio Abattino knowing something about the man with the BMW but is not clear what through the translator.
 
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AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
24,138
Lago Maggiore, Italy
#17
That's very interesting info and on top of that there was the Cold War with the Vatican having a key role in Reagan's strategy. The documentary Enigma speaks of the Pope's travel to Jugoslavia and the approach to Poland. According to an article in the Blog Di Emanuela Orlandi the money lent to the Vatican came from the Mob itself via the BDM and never returned but was used to finance the illegal union in Communist Poland "Solidarity". It also says something about Maurizio Abattino knowing something about the man with the BMW but is not clear what through the translator.
That line of inquiry is based on the assumption that Emanuela [citizen of the Vatican, btw, daughter of the clerk] noted something about what's going on. How can you trust a teen? Better to make her disappear. The alternative, which is as valid as well [and which wouldn't been connected with the scandal of the Banco Ambrosiano and of the money given to the opposition in Poland] is that the two girls had involved in some sexual game with high members of the clergy who obviously felt the necessity to hide all and forever.

I tend to prefer the simple solution: I keep the two matters separated [while conspiracy lovers tend to put all together ...].
 
Feb 2012
3,767
Portugal
#18
Thanks, the main conspiracies seem to be based on the idea she was kidnapped for being the daughter of who she was, but based on the evidence related to the man with the BMW attempting the same method with other girls or one of the early anonymous callers to the family who are now considered an attempt to disimform having been surprised when he learned the girls uncle was in the Vatican does it not seem more consistent with the wrong person being kidnapped for what was a roundup of victims for the abusive parties? Maybe what the criminologist F. Bruno was saying about hidding a smaller crime with a bigger one.
 

AlpinLuke

Ad Honoris
Oct 2011
24,138
Lago Maggiore, Italy
#19
Thanks, the main conspiracies seem to be based on the idea she was kidnapped for being the daughter of who she was, but based on the evidence related to the man with the BMW attempting the same method with other girls or one of the early anonymous callers to the family who are now considered an attempt to disimform having been surprised when he learned the girls uncle was in the Vatican does it not seem more consistent with the wrong person being kidnapped for what was a roundup of victims for the abusive parties? Maybe what the criminologist F. Bruno was saying about hidding a smaller crime with a bigger one.
It's always a matter of perspective. To finance in that way Solidarnosh in Poland and to generate a tremendous problem to an Italian bank were illegal activities, criminal acts, according to the Italian laws. But from a NATO / Western perspective and from an anti-Communist / traditional Catholic perspective ... similar activities were justifiable, even ethically necessary. Well different matter was a sexual abuse or a sexual crime: to have sex with a teen, 15 years old, for an adult was a crime and still is a crime, but overall it was a sinful action which was not acceptable for the Vatican clergy ... overall if members of the High Clergy got involved. The scandal would have been well difficult to manage and someone [a Bishop? A Cardinal?] Could have acted following a desperate instinct, killing one of the girls. All to be hidden and quickly! And the destiny of the other girl was already written: eternal silence [in a way or an other].
 
Feb 2012
3,767
Portugal
#20
Could have acted following a desperate instinct, killing one of the girls. All to be hidden and quickly! And the destiny of the other girl was already written: eternal silence [in a way or an other].
This story is like a puzzle where none of the pieces seem to fit quite well. Shouldn't they have thought about the consequences first? Or maybe what doesn't make sense is human irrationality. And then there are all the different versions given by well positioned people.