English language... 'Anglo-Frisian' or 'West Germanic'?

Is English rather an 'Anglo-Frisian' or a 'West Germanic' language?

  • Anglo-Frisian

    Votes: 13 48.1%
  • West Germanic

    Votes: 8 29.6%
  • other

    Votes: 6 22.2%

  • Total voters
    27
Nov 2018
105
Idaho
#42
The original English was much closer to Norse than it was to later Frisian languages - though English has evolved along lines closer to Dutch and Frisian than to German or the Norse languages. I would say, due to its anomalous influences and history, that it should probably be considered its own unique division of Germanic, closest to the Frisian languages.
 

authun

Ad Honorem
Aug 2011
5,118
#43
The original English was much closer to Norse than it was to later Frisian languages
That's probably true of the Jutish dialects in England, possibly true of the anglian dialects but probably not true for the so called saxon dialects, or at least the langauge of the Nordseemischgruppe.

After the east germanic languages split from common germanic it is unclear how diverse the dialects in northern germany and southern scandinavia were. The little runic evidence that exists suggests that north of the Eider a common runic tradition existed around 400AD, possibly relecting a common sound. South of the Eider, there is no runic tradition at this early date. When runes appear in england, those before 650 AD are almost exclusively in jutish or anglian areas. This is based on a 24 character runeset. Once the 'saxon' areas in england start to provide runic evidence, the number of characters steadily rises to 33, presumably to reflect the sound changes. In southern scandinavia, the runeset becomes simplified as the 24 charcters are reduced to 16, starting around 700AD. The later anglo saxon runeset has many common characters with the runeset. which emerges in frisia. In earlier textbooks, it is sometimes referred to as the anglo frisian runeset but it is, roughly 2 - 3 centuries after the earliest runes, noth of the river Eider in Jutland.

page_pre650_runes.gif
 
Nov 2018
105
Idaho
#44
That's probably true of the Jutish dialects in England, possibly true of the anglian dialects but probably not true for the so called saxon dialects, or at least the langauge of the Nordseemischgruppe.
Beyond my competence to comment on that.
I find it interesting (as a person who speaks only English) how I can almost understand Dutch sometimes. I would say I can understand some Dutch about as well as I can understand some Welsh and Irish allegedly speaking English! Though if I were reading what they wrote the situation would be quite the opposite.
 

authun

Ad Honorem
Aug 2011
5,118
#45
Beyond my competence to comment on that.
I find it interesting (as a person who speaks only English) how I can almost understand Dutch sometimes. I would say I can understand some Dutch about as well as I can understand some Welsh and Irish allegedly speaking English! Though if I were reading what they wrote the situation would be quite the opposite.
English is classed as a Low West Germanic language. Low West Germanic languages include Dutch, Frisian, Platt (sometimes called low saxon), Lallans and Doric, both dialects in Scotland, Brabantish, Limburgish etc. Low germanic did not undergo the consonant changes that upper german did, which is what modern german is based on. So, drinken did not become trinken, to drink. Twintig did not become Zwanzig, twenty. It is my personal opinion that the influence of the Hanseatic league, which used platt/low saxon as a sort of lingua franca for trade throughout the north of germany and around the north sea and baltic, arrested the sound changes that occurred in middle and upper germany.

If you re interested, you may like this link

Lowlands-L • a discussion group for people who share an interest in languages and cultures of the Lowlands
 
Nov 2018
105
Idaho
#46
Dec 2012
989
Where the Sun never sleeps
#47
There are an interesting book and documentary series called "The Adventures of English". It gives a general understanding of where the English and American English language comes from.

The book is written and the documentary is narrated by Melvyn Bragg. Our language consists of words from so many cultures. If you are up for it, give it a watch. The documentary is 405 minutes long, broken down into 8 episodes.
 

authun

Ad Honorem
Aug 2011
5,118
#48
There are an interesting book and documentary series called "The Adventures of English". It gives a general understanding of where the English and American English language comes from.

The book is written and the documentary is narrated by Melvyn Bragg. Our language consists of words from so many cultures. If you are up for it, give it a watch. The documentary is 405 minutes long, broken down into 8 episodes.

It is book aimed at making the subject popular but it was heavily criticised at the time, 15 years ago, described as merely a world list. Bragg isn't a linguist, he's a TV presenter and as linguists were pointing out, the book did not take into account any of the important advances made in linguistics in the previous 30 years.

"wanting more authority and less vocabulary"

Review: The Adventure of English by Melvyn Bragg
 
Oct 2015
5,179
Matosinhos Portugal
#49
Words portuguese » Normal Singular Morgue Similar »» English Normal Singular Morgue Similar - German »» Normal Singular Leichenschauhaus ähnlich.

A small example, I see more Latin words in the English language, than words German origin, I am not saying that the English language is Latin, please do not make confusion.
----
In portuguese.

Um pequeno exemplo,vejo mais palavras latinas na lingua inglêsa,do que palavras origem alemã,atênção eu não estou a dizer que a lingua inglêsa é latina,por favor não façam confusão.
 

authun

Ad Honorem
Aug 2011
5,118
#50
A small example, I see more Latin words in the English language, than words German origin, I am not saying that the English language is Latin, please do not make confusion.
Most latinate words in english enter the language via french after 1300. There are often two words to mean the same thing, one english and one french, eg slaughterer and butcher, shoemaker and cobbler, foreword and preface etc.
 

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