Europe and Migrations

Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
4,596
Portugal
Yes, it is but why are wetalking about the recepient most if the time? There is no such extensive assessment of migrants intentionally refusing to integrate.
I don’t know if we talk more about the recepient most of the time, but it is the recipient state that recognizing the problem should elaborate a coherent policy.

So Integration was achieved? Which means the country wanted and allowed it? What changed .
I don’t think that integration was achieved. Don’t even think that is possible to achieve fully integration in just the timeframe of one generation. Many of those people lived in neighbourhoods that form ghettos. Furthermore they tend to work only with persons of the same cultural background. This lack of quotidian human relations/interactions with other cultural groups delays/prevents a fully integration.

And than the consequence is that in many cases the second generation seems to fell foreigner in Europe (outside the ghetto) and has an idealized image of the home countries of their ancestors.

For instance, in the case of my country, Portugal, the gypsies are still not fully integrated and they are here for centuries.
 
Oct 2010
4,802
DC
I don’t know if we talk more about the recipient most of the time, but it is the recipient state that recognizing the problem should elaborate a coherent policy.
The only thing I can understand the talk about the recipient is their legal responsibilities, said place's government can not control the feelings of the populations in one way or another. The thing about the "other" in the whole discussion is the new comers will always see the host as the "OTHERS" , they come with that attitude and a high level of legal and social kindness do little to change it over generations; that is a problem of voluntary self segregation that comes with them.

I don’t think that integration was achieved. Don’t even think that is possible to achieve fully integration in just the time frame of one generation. Many of those people lived in neighborhoods that form ghettos. Furthermore they tend to work only with persons of the same cultural background. This lack of quotidian human relations/interactions with other cultural groups delays/prevents a fully integration.

And than the consequence is that in many cases the second generation seems to fell foreigner in Europe (outside the ghetto) and has an idealized image of the home countries of their ancestors.

For instance, in the case of my country, Portugal, the gypsies are still not fully integrated and they are here for centuries.
I think integration is not achievable if you have a very large number coming together all at once or within a short period of time, especially if they share the attitude of the hosts' otherness.
 
Likes: Isleifson
Apr 2018
454
Upland, Sweden
And the Paris prosecution opened an inquiry, for "public incitement to commit a crime or a delict".

Accordingly to the 24'th article of the law on Press Liberty, he can be condemned up to 5 years of prison and a 45,000 EUR fees.
We'll see what happens, they sentenced Dieudonné didn't they?

We had a similar (but much more refreshingly childish and innocent) in Sweden two decades back with Ken Ring (half Swedish half... kenyan, I think?) rapper saying he would "rape the princess" and whatnot. Ironic thing is, he lives most of the year in Kenya partly because he's worried about the social effects of immigration - according to him - on Swedish society. I quite like the man actually, he's grown up since his early twenties and quite emotionally turbulent teenage period.
While he is quite vulgar and not very intellectual, he has a keener eye for truth than many far more "qualified" observers...
 
Likes: Isleifson
Apr 2018
454
Upland, Sweden
As for the video... I believe the problem is that monsieur Conrad thought he could get away with it, not worrying about social and potentially violent consequences for himself, his family and friends. It seems to indicate that he considers "les blancs" to be quite emasculated... which we have, unfrotunately become.

This is a tricky situation. Dragging this man to court is a waste of time for the justice system, and makes the host population looks weak in the eyes of mr. Conrad (because of the assymetry of the response) as well as the perhaps not unsubstantial part of the french immigrant population who has at least some sympathy for his video, perhaps sees it as too violent but partially justified given percieved charges of racism - or just generally thinks it "chanmé" or whatever the kids in the banlieue are saying nowadays. Of course making a court case of it also provides Conrad with the attention he so clearly craves.

I say this as someone of partially immigrant ancestry, if my dad (although a European immigrant) had done something like this back in the 1960s he'd had been at the very least been branded a social pariah with clear longterm consequences for himself, and quite probably gotten his face punched in and left in a ditch somewhere by the more neanderthal subsection of the local Swedish young male population.

While not a very civilized solution, it would have been an understandable course of action given the coarseness and violence of his language. There are some kinds of behaviours that simply cannot be tolerated from ethnic minorities if society is to function.
 
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Likes: Isleifson
Oct 2013
12,925
Europix
As for the video... I believe the problem is that monsieur Conrad thought he could get away with it, not worrying about social and potentially violent consequences for himself, his family and friends. It seems to indicate that he considers "les blancs" to be quite emasculated... which we have, unfrotunately become.

This is a tricky situation. Dragging this man to court is a waste of time for the justice system, and makes the host population looks weak in the eyes of mr. Conrad (because of the assymetry of the response) as well as the perhaps not unsubstantial part of the french immigrant population who has at least some sympathy for his video, perhaps sees it as too violent but partially justified given percieved charges of racism - or just generally thinks it "chanmé" or whatever the kids in the banlieue are saying nowadays. Of course making a court case of it also provides Conrad with the attention he so clearly craves.

I say this as someone of partially immigrant ancestry, if my dad (although a European immigrant) had done something like this back in the 1960s he'd had been at the very least been branded a social pariah with clear longterm consequences for himself, and quite probably gotten his face punched in and left in a ditch somewhere by the more neanderthal subsection of the local Swedish young male population.

While not a very civilized solution, it would have been an understandable course of action given the coarseness and violence of his language. There are some kinds of behaviours that simply cannot be tolerated from ethnic minorities if society is to function.
There a lot of ways to answer to such a song.

Dragging this man to court is a waste of time for the justice system, and makes the host population looks weak
We like to say that our societies are based on the rule of law. If respecting what we think it's a fundament of our societies is a waste of time and makes us week ... IDK. I was thought that a week person is the one not able to respect it's own decisions, it's own precepts, it's own rules.

But ok, I might be wrong.