Europe facing the danger of Internet censorship

AlpinLuke

Forum Staff
Oct 2011
27,222
Italy, Lago Maggiore
Agree broadly, many people are more or less incapacitated because they for one reason or the other are unable to make use of the increasing digitization. This applies to both young and old. And it is actually a democratic problem that so many are left behind.

But for us who understand how to use the possibilities, it is much easier.

E.g. in the old days when you had filled your tax papers and sent them, you had to go to the tax office to get them corrected if you had made a mistake.

Now you can edit them at any time and your tax payments are automatically changed.

And with regard to physical contact with public employees. Yeah, okay, it can sometimes be very interesting.:mad:
I being to wonder if to date a Danish woman I have to ask her how to contact her on Facebook and then try and date her on Facebook while we are standing in a park at Copenhagen [obviously without wathching one each other, we would be busy to type on the smartphones!].
 
Nov 2018
355
Denmark
I being to wonder if to date a Danish woman I have to ask her how to contact her on Facebook and then try and date her on Facebook while we are standing in a park at Copenhagen [obviously without wathching one each other, we would be busy to type on the smartphones!].
You got the picture :lol:
 

GogLais

Ad Honorem
Sep 2013
5,472
Wirral
I haven’t read the documents and I probably wouldn’t understand the ramifications if I did. However, the stuff in the OP seems to relate to copyright and not expression of political views or whatever. Am I wrong? It happens sometimes. I often think that the world would be a better place if social media had never been invented.
 
Nov 2018
355
Denmark
The problem is, as I understand it, that the different platforms have to set up firewalls to prevent their users from using copyright protected material and that these firewalls will sort randomly and so strongly that in practice it would be censorship.
 

GogLais

Ad Honorem
Sep 2013
5,472
Wirral
The problem is, as I understand it, that the different platforms have to set up firewalls to prevent their users from using copyright protected material and that these firewalls will sort randomly and so strongly that in practice it would be censorship.
I can understand that a filter designed to say prevent extensive quotations from copyright material might also filter out somebody else’s original material that happened to be a close match. But surely the filter would tell them and they could amend their wording to get through the filter. It’s going to be a very coarse and badly designed filter to effectively be censorship.
 
Nov 2018
355
Denmark
I can understand that a filter designed to say prevent extensive quotations from copyright material might also filter out somebody else’s original material that happened to be a close match. But surely the filter would tell them and they could amend their wording to get through the filter. It’s going to be a very coarse and badly designed filter to effectively be censorship.
Yes, but it is one of the arguments the opponents use against the law.

But the messages coming from the European Parliament suggests that its members also find it difficult to understand the consequences of the law they have passed.
 

GogLais

Ad Honorem
Sep 2013
5,472
Wirral
The Internet has been the most destructive force to democracy.

Its primary effect has been the balkanization of people's attitudes, mores and beliefs WITHIN cultures that had been fairly unified in a world in which some level of curation made it difficult to disseminate imbecility, lies, disinformation, and ideology counter to thr prevailing social norms.
Brexit- was an imbecility borne of malicious manipulation of the internet by an adversary of NATO- so was the Catalan Independance movement- Right wing and fascist movements all over the world have been fueled by the ease with which corporate algorithms seeking to maximize advertising profits can be subverted to divide populations of voters into voting against their own best interests.

The Internet has been weaponized. If you imagine that the internet you see is 'free' and un-manipulated, then you simply do not comprehend how the internet works. The Internet You see is entirely different from the internet I see. Your access to information is not free and unfiltered- it is very stringently Narrowed, and Focused on just those things you show a tendency to click on. This Fuels you to be shown, and to view, ever more distilled versions of your own innate and perhaps previously unsuspected prejudices.

It does the exact opposite of bringing people together to a consensus- we, each, end up with entirely isolated and concentrated worldviews that are incompatible with those of our neighbors- and this serves the forces of kleptocracy and despotism, because the fragmentation of public opinion, belief, and understanding results in the paralyzation of the body politic to form any kind of consensus, not only on what is of threat- but even of what is true. And that prevents anything from being done.

Today- Vladimir Putin is waging a war across the west- actively trying to undermine the ability of western democracies to address their own internal crisies and the divisions his actions have exacerbated. He helped fund Marine Le Pen- and the Catalan movement,- and UKIP. He is using the Internet to sabotage democracies so that they can not even come to consensus about their OWN economies- much less act in concert to try and stop Putin from doing whatever he wants.


There is NO freedom of speech on the internet- there is ONLY the freedom to anonymously misinform.

In the US we have a first amendment- it grants freedom of speech and of the press- but Nowhere does it grant the right to speak anonymously.

The founding fathers lived in a world where what you might have to say was attributable to You.

The internet desperately NEEDS a curator. Some means to suppress lies and disinformation, and bring reliable, verifiable information to the for.

We, as a species, do not NEED the "freedom" to spread Flat Earth conspiracies.

Step one to fixing the internet would be total and absolute attribution of all content. Anything anyone posts- any funding they might get to post it- fully disclosed up front on every site, tweet, blog, or utube video.

No more astroturfing- no more spoofing- no more 'usernames'- if you don't want people to know that YOU posted something- then the only solution would be to Not post it.
Without getting into the rights and wrongs of Brexit ?I think that’s very well said.
 

GogLais

Ad Honorem
Sep 2013
5,472
Wirral
Yes, but it is one of the arguments the opponents use against the law.

But the messages coming from the European Parliament suggests that its members also find it difficult to understand the consequences of the law they have passed.
One can’t argue against wilful ignorance or bias if that is what is happening. What are the messages from the European Parliament?
 

Linschoten

Ad Honoris
Aug 2010
16,214
Welsh Marches
"The internet desperately NEEDS a curator. Some means to suppress lies and disinformation, and bring reliable, verifiable information to the for."

It is a complete illusion to suppose that any 'curating' would be applied independently of political bias, as one can already see where it is applied by tech companies at present.Who on earth is going to decide what is 'reliable information' and what is not? I'm sorry, people just have to be allowed to make their own judgments about the value of things on the posted on the internet, otherwise one just gets censorship of one kind or another, not any proper determination of what is true or not. Let's leave censoring of the internet to China.
 
Nov 2018
355
Denmark
One can’t argue against wilful ignorance or bias if that is what is happening. What are the messages from the European Parliament?
This is a quote from Verge on 12. September 2018 ( Is this legal now ? )

“The system is so complicated that last Friday the [European Parliament] legal affairs committee tweeted an incorrect assessment of what’s happening,” Joe McNamee, executive director of digital rights association EDRi, told The Verge. “If they don’t understand the rules, what hope the rest of us?”