European take a lot more vacation days than Americans

Status
Closed

Rodger

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
6,094
US
#21
Yes, my friend, yes: that's an axiom, and we have to understand it was always there, it's there and it will always will.


There's an old Arab saying: "better young, healthy and rich than old, ill and poor"


IMHO, we do not have to dismiss the model because there are people trying to abuse it. We have to make the model "imune" to abusers. Working only for the "fair ones".


You know, the water and the baby in the bathtub ...
This, I think is the crux of the issue. Call me a pessimist, but, for me, this is impossible. There has always been and always will be people who will live off of the fruits of others work. It's one thing to keep a grown adult child, who is your own, in the spare bedroom because he/she chooses not work. It's another thing to keep strangers, on a constant basis, because they think they are too good to work - at least at the rate or the job, including work hours, the market dictates. If you can determine how to make the system immune to freeloaders you deserve a Nobel Prize my friend.:)
 

deaf tuner

Ad Honoris
Oct 2013
14,419
Europix
#22
This, I think is the crux of the issue. Call me a pessimist, but, for me, this is impossible. There has always been and always will be people who will live off of the fruits of others work. It's one thing to keep a grown adult child, who is your own, in the spare bedroom because he/she chooses not work. It's another thing to keep strangers, on a constant basis, because they think they are too good to work - at least at the rate or the job, including work hours, the market dictates. If you can determine how to make the system immune to freeloaders you deserve a Nobel Prize my friend.:)
Well, imune ....

You can make him resistant, like in having just a flu a couple of days, that doesn't stop You working. Or leave it derail, like in a pandemic killing half of population. And you know that it's the same virus having both consequences, don't You?
 

Rodger

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
6,094
US
#23
Well, imune ....

You can make him resistant, like in having just a flu a couple of days, that doesn't stop You working. Or leave it derail, like in a pandemic killing half of population. And you know that it's the same virus having both consequences, don't You?
Why resist the effort to not work when social benefits within a highly collective society will take care of you? What's the incentive? As an analogy, although on a different level, did this concept work in communist nations like the USSR? We have plenty even in the U.S., with less generous benefits, who don't mind avoiding work. 4 hours a day? How about 0 hours a day for many. Months of paid vacation/holidays for some? How about everyday is a vacation day, holiday for others. Then they demand to live like you do, saying it is the "fair" thing to do. What's fair to me is that everybody pull their weight unless they have a very good reason to not do so. The only negative to my scenario s that somebody may try to rob or con you. I am all for taking care of children. But once you become an adult, you need to try to take care of yourself or live a very spartan lifestyle and not complain or be envious.
 

deaf tuner

Ad Honoris
Oct 2013
14,419
Europix
#24
As an analogy, although on a different level, did this concept work in communist nations like the USSR?
Firstly, if I'm not mistaken, commi countries had the 6 day working day/week.

Secondly, it didn't worked also because it wasn't this system!

And sorry, I don't see why we focus on what is the exception when discussing the principle.

If I have the right at 4 weeks holidays it isn't because I don't wanna work, but because I worked.

If I have the right to 5 working days/week on full pay it isn't because I don't wanna work, but because I work.

If I will have the right to unemployment it isn't because I don't wanna work but because I don't have work. And if I am paid the unemployment, it isn't because someone gives me charity, but because I paid my dues when I worked!
 
Likes: Rodger

Rodger

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
6,094
US
#25
Firstly, if I'm not mistaken, commi countries had the 6 day working day/week.

Secondly, it didn't worked also because it wasn't this system!

And sorry, I don't see why we focus on what is the exception when discussing the principle.

If I have the right at 4 weeks holidays it isn't because I don't wanna work, but because I worked.

If I have the right to 5 working days/week on full pay it isn't because I don't wanna work, but because I work.

If I will have the right to unemployment it isn't because I don't wanna work but because I don't have work. And if I am paid the unemployment, it isn't because someone gives me charity, but because I paid my dues when I worked!
I don't know what the commies had but I know there was little incentive to work because work, let alone hard work, was not rewarded. I can see getting benefits for working hard and for a long time. I don;t know how most European systems work. Are you saying those who work for the government in many European nations have to pay their dues before they reap the rewards. What is considered paying their dues?
 

deaf tuner

Ad Honoris
Oct 2013
14,419
Europix
#26
I don't know what the commies had but I know there was little incentive to work because work, let alone hard work, was not rewarded. I can see getting benefits for working hard and for a long time. I don;t know how most European systems work. Are you saying those who work for the government in many European nations have to pay their dues before they reap the rewards. What is considered paying their dues?
Now You take me into another exception: "those who work for Government". That's only one category, amongst others.

When I was talking about paying my due, I was talking about my contributions, about my taxes.

The health coverage I have is from my wage. Not a gift from the PM. The paid holidays is from may wage and my employer's contribution. My kids' (almost) free schooling is from my taxes.

Really, why so many people think that a state having extended coverages is a Communist-like state?

Why having rights won trough work and struggle is "reaping rewards"?

What is considered paying their dues?
1. Respect the law.
2. Honest work.
3. Pay the taxes.
 
Last edited:
Likes: Rodger
Jan 2017
754
UK
#27
I wonder how much effect the average commute time has on working longer hours. Working 60+ hours a week is more bearable if you live 5 minutes away, if someone's commuting 2 hours to work & 2 hours back every day that's an extra 20 hours on top of the usual 37.5 hours.

Harder to compare working hours from 50-60 years ago compared to today since cities have grown along with the population, job distribution between cities and rural areas has changed too e.t.c.
 

Rodger

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
6,094
US
#28
Now You take me into another exception: "those who work for Government". That's only one category, amongst others.

When I was talking about paying my due, I was talking about my contributions, about my taxes.

The health coverage I have is from my wage. Not a gift from the PM. The paid holidays is from may wage and my employer's contribution. My kids' (almost) free schooling is from my taxes.

Really, why so many people think that a state having extended coverages is a Communist-like state?

Why having rights won trough work and struggle is "reaping rewards"?



1. Respect the law.
2. Honest work.
3. Pay the taxes.
Ok. I may be offering the stereotypical examples. I thought a good deal of people work in the government sector, at least more than in the U.S. If the taxes are fairly distributed, then so be it. What is the income tax rate for workers?
 

Rodger

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
6,094
US
#29
I wonder how much effect the average commute time has on working longer hours. Working 60+ hours a week is more bearable if you live 5 minutes away, if someone's commuting 2 hours to work & 2 hours back every day that's an extra 20 hours on top of the usual 37.5 hours.

Harder to compare working hours from 50-60 years ago compared to today since cities have grown along with the population, job distribution between cities and rural areas has changed too e.t.c.
My ancestors lived within walking distance of the mill. My in law was a general manager for a fast food chain. He worked about 70 hours a week and had to travel among his distribution of restaurants. Hard work, long hours. He eventually made enough to go into business for himself as a small business proprietor. He is motivated and a go getter, even in his 60s.
 
Nov 2018
284
Denmark
#30
Why resist the effort to not work when social benefits within a highly collective society will take care of you? What's the incentive? As an analogy, although on a different level, did this concept work in communist nations like the USSR? We have plenty even in the U.S., with less generous benefits, who don't mind avoiding work. 4 hours a day? How about 0 hours a day for many. Months of paid vacation/holidays for some? How about everyday is a vacation day, holiday for others. Then they demand to live like you do, saying it is the "fair" thing to do. What's fair to me is that everybody pull their weight unless they have a very good reason to not do so. The only negative to my scenario s that somebody may try to rob or con you. I am all for taking care of children. But once you become an adult, you need to try to take care of yourself or live a very spartan lifestyle and not complain or be envious.
In Denmark, the employment rate in 2017 was according to Denmark's statistics; 81.5% for men aged 15-64 and 76.1% for women aged 15-64.

According to the EU, the employment rate in 2018 was 17.5% for men aged 65-74 and 7.3% for women aged 65-74.

Those who are not in employment include people who are taking an education, people in prison, sick, retired and people outside the labor market.

So what motivates people in the generous Danish welfare society to get up every morning and go to work.

First of all, our creditors 57% of the population live in their own house. If you want to live in the cities outside Copenhagen, a house for 267,895 euros is minimum, if you want a decent house. In the capital, it is about twice as expensive. it's cheaper in the countryside, it is getting cheaper the farther away from the cities you want to live.

Although you rent, it is also not cheap especially if you want to live in a proper neighborhood without too many social losers.

That brings us to the next point, if there is something the hard-troubled taxpayers in Denmark despise, then it is people who do not work.

After all, most people do not like their fellows to look at them as if they had some kind of leprosy, so they will try to find a job as soon as possible.

And last but not least, many actually like their jobs, see it as part of their identity and take pride in doing it well.
 
Likes: Rodger
Status
Closed