European Union - Good idea or not?

Aug 2008
208
Auckland
#1
Was the creation of the European Union (And also it's predecessors too, such as the EEC) a good idea?

From my point of view, the European Union was created as a result of WW2, it was established with hugs and kisses to former enemies, the current form of the EU, was established in 1992, that's nearly 50 years after the war, personally I believe even that was a direct result of WW2.

The European Union is becoming more and more powerful, and soon we might see a real united Europe, but do you think that the European states are willing to relinquish sovereignty easily?

Personally, I think the EU has good intentions, but I don't think the EU can patch up centuries of bitterness between European countries, and the people of Europe still can't forget what happened in WW2, as it was only a lifetime ago (Think about it, 60 years...not that long), the atrocities that each side committed, people are still bitter, and are not willing to forgive.

Such recent European conflicts are still in living memories, such as the Troubles in Ireland, the Anglo-Irish conflicts, Yugoslavia, where they mixed traditional enemies, Croatians and Serbs together, and even after it's dissolution, there still have been ethnic tensions.
Greece and Turkey also have their troubles, so do Macedonia and Greece, and so do Bulgaria and Turkey.

So yeah...I think I'll stop talking now

What do you guys think?
 
Sep 2008
1,855
Halicarnassus, 353BC
#3
I know one thing for certain. Britain will never surrender anything to the EU. Anti- EU sentiment in the country is very strong. The EU is deeply unpopular. Anything that comes from the EU is treated with deep suspicion, bordering on xenophobia.

There will never be a united states of europe. Individual countries will never give up the power to control themsevelves. No country will trust another enough to do that.

Sad, but true.
 

Toltec

Ad Honorem
Apr 2008
7,923
Hyperborea
#4
but I don't think the EU can patch up centuries of bitterness between European countries,

and the people of Europe still can't forget what happened in WW2, as it was only a lifetime ago (Think about it, 60 years...not that long), the atrocities that each side committed, people are still bitter, and are not willing to forgive.

Such recent European conflicts are still in living memories, such as the Troubles in Ireland, the Anglo-Irish conflicts, Yugoslavia, where they mixed traditional enemies, Croatians and Serbs together, and even after it's dissolution, there still have been ethnic tensions.
Greece and Turkey also have their troubles, so do Macedonia and Greece, and so do Bulgaria and Turkey.

So yeah...I think I'll stop talking now

What do you guys think?

Rather in the past tense. Everything you said won't has happened already. Also all those people you say hate one another get on really welll actually, for example Serbs and Croats like one another, especially at Eurovision. I think your letting the intense hatred between Mauris and New Zealanders cloud your view and assuming it's the same in Europe..

The EU is a global corperation and as a global corperation it's profit driven. Issues like nationalism, history, borders, xenophobia really don't matter in the profitworld.

The UK has benefited greately from its membership, in social terms as well as political and economic. I think most people support it, except a small bunch of vocal fanatics.
 
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Lucius

Forum Staff
Jan 2007
16,363
Nebraska
#5
The European Union is becoming more and more powerful, and soon we might see a real united Europe, but do you think that the European states are willing to relinquish sovereignty easily?
No, not anytime soon. That would be in far, far future, say, 20 years from now.
 
Sep 2008
1,855
Halicarnassus, 353BC
#6
The UK has benefited greately from its membership, in social terms as well as political and economic. I think most people support it, except a small bunch of vocal fanatics.
I agree with the first part. But I think it's somewhat more unpopular than you suggest. Do you ever read the newspapers? You'd think the EU was some kind of fascist organisation from the stuff that gets written in there... it's virtually all rabidly anti european, to the point of racism.
 

Toltec

Ad Honorem
Apr 2008
7,923
Hyperborea
#7
I agree with the first part. But I think it's somewhat more unpopular than you suggest. Do you ever read the newspapers? You'd think the EU was some kind of fascist organisation from the stuff that gets written in there... it's virtually all rabidly anti european, to the point of racism.

You mean the murdoch tabloids and the ex-nazi daily mail.

There is a pattern to this dislike.
 
Sep 2008
268
Orkney, United Kingdom
#9
Whether there will be true trusting union in Europe is very unlikely, but I can see it expanding. As for how we British truly feel, that is to remain a mystery until a referendum is held, which we know governments promise but always find an excuse to get of 'Let's wait until the economics are on our side', Let's see what's happening with our neighbours as regards to ....' etc. Correct me if I'm wrong but were not going to have a say in the 'euro currency' during Labours first term of office?
The only problem I can forsee is that the more eastern european countries that join the EU, the weaker the western votes will be - I know there is the power of veto but will that work forever?
Does anyone remember the referendum held in the 70's, it was my first vote in any election, at the time I said 'no' to europe, now 30 years plus the wiser, even with its problems I would vote yes to the union and yes to the currency, it's going to happen eventually so let's get it done, dusted and get on with life.
 
Sep 2008
1,855
Halicarnassus, 353BC
#10
I would vote yes to the union too, but no to the currency.

The currency is too clumsy as it operates on the principle of one size fits all. But in reality, different areas have different economic needs. An interest rate that fits Italy and Germany may not fit Spain and Britain at all, for example.

This is an argument based on practical, rather than ideological reasons, however. So if the circumstances came where one currency would be more efficient, I would vote yes to that as well. But it seems unlikely, at least for now.