Fall of France, 1940, PDF's?

Dec 2011
1,321
Belgium
#23
Yes David this one is very good I read it twice.

I prepared an elaborated reply to my friend Triceratops, with critics on the Belgian site and searched for my year's long research on the Belgian 18 days campaign and Fall Gelb, but most of my sources are in French. But in my French threads there were references to my former BBC threads and links also in English as the book of the British Major Ellis...

But due to two operations in two days times too feeble to compose the elaborated message...some patience asked...see you in some days...

Kind regards, Paul.
 
Apr 2016
12
South Africa
#24
Thanks for the links guys

DeWet Iwrote about ten yearsago and had published an article on eneral Wauchope who was killed leading the Scottish ighland regiments who took part in the SecondBoer Wat at the Battle of Magersfontein in December 1899.
My interst onGeneral Wauchope was sparked many years befor when Iused to pass the memorial to him ercted after his death in 1899 in Edniburgh's Niddrie ains Road which still stands there.
Wauchope was the Laird (Lord /landowner)of Niddrie in 1899 when it was still a country estate until the 1930's when Edinburgh City Council bought the land to build a huge working class housing scheme to accomodate those being rehused after slum clearance.
General Wauchop iwho fell at Magersfontein with his Scottish troops has sevarl streets name after him in the Niddrie area.
Idecided to research how he dies at Magersfontein and discoverd from a British perspective it was a cock upped attack which cost WaucHope (pronounced by Scots as WALKUP) his life .
But nobody has to rell 21stcentury Scots just how costly the Boer War 1899-1902 was in British Scottish lives -two of the most impressive war memorials in cental Edinburgh -the Black Watch regiment memorial at the tiop of the Mound and the Royal Scots Greys cavalry regiment memorial in Princes Street have are covered in names-too many names-of young ordinary Scotsmen who perished in an Imperiliast War that could have been .
avoided.
However, the Second Boer War had an unintended advantage for British Socialist and Liberal social reformers between 1902 and 1914 when the foundations of the British welfare state were laid down.
In 1900 in Manchester England, as many as one in ten men volunteering for war service for the Second Boer War were rejected because they could not meet the minimum physical requirements for military service .
This prompted further studies showed that poor nutrition and poverty related diseases like rickets were responsible for these appalling figures-hence the campaign by the Liberal govt of 1906-14(headed by Campbell- Bannerman defender of the Boers until 1908 when he died of cancer to introduce the early welfare state.
Did you also know DeWet, that another future British Prime Minister between 1916-22) David Lloyd George, who was pro-Boer during the 1899-1902 war had to be disguised as a Birmingham policeman to escape an angry British Imperialst anti-Boer lynch mob after Lloyd George also made a speech attacking the British govt's treatement of Boer civilians?
So the Second Boer War had a similar divisive, polarising social effect in Britain that the Vietnam War had in 1960's USA society.
Yes the Boer war certainly shook up British politics. It also improved the British army to a great degree, something that could have only helped them in WW1. To this day Boers talk about how brave the Scottish were. I have not heard of the story about D L George disguised as a policeman to escape, interesting indeed.

Did you know that the Boers, after the guerrilla phase started, main source of resupply was the enemy. Aside from attacking weak points and trains etc, they also simply followed the great columns around picking up ammunition dropped by the regulars.
 
Nov 2015
1,747
Bye, bye
#25
I hope you gentlemen can assist me. I am looking for full free PDF books about the fall of France. I have googled and googled but can only find very little. Obviously the newer books still have copy right, and I don't want to steal stuff when I can pay for it, but surely there must be some older books that don't carry copy right that I can download?

I have read about those amazing six weeks in many books, but never a book that exclusively covers it. Strategically it was their only hope of winning, but the day to day tactics is what I am interested in.

Thanks guys, hope you got something for me
Actually the best book on this very controversial subject is surely a French one, i know only French version "Mai-Juin 1940 Defaite Francaise-Victoire allemande" the author is named Vaisse and French Publisher is "edition autrement".
This book is a very good summary of all modern knoweldge about this battle trough many studies of international historians.
I hope for you that you'll find an English or German translation because this is a revolutionary book. If you can read it you'll discover a lot surprising historical events wich show us that many "cliché" are completely wrong about this very "strange allied defeat" wich changed the face of the world until 1943.
Main army of the democracy side of this time collapsed completely werehas it was actually as strong as German one.
To my own opinion that's not the last time we talk about this battle werehas we talked about it many many time before.

Best regards,
 
Mar 2016
72
The motherland
#26
Rommel and the German 7th Panzer division in France 1940: The Initial Days of the Campaign By Ove Pappila

http://www.kkrva.se/wp-content/uploads/Artiklar/092/kkrvaht_2_2009_8.pdf


[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Fall-France-Invasion-Making-Modern/dp/0192805509"]Amazon.com: The Fall of France: The Nazi Invasion of 1940 (Making of the Modern World) (9780192805508): Julian Jackson: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Fz2c%2ByMCL.@@AMEPARAM@@51Fz2c%2ByMCL[/ame]
 
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Dec 2011
1,321
Belgium
#27
Triceratops,

thank you for your link to the "official account" of the WWII history.

I read it with interest, but have somewhere some critics as it gives the official version in relation with Leopold III...and backed by the son of Lord Keyes, who was the liaison officer between Churchill and teh king of Belgium during the 18 days campaign.
For example there is a lot of controversy among historians about what happened at Ypres 21 May 194à...in each case the meeting was chaotic and without clear directives. The king wanted to stay with his troops in Belgium and the English wanted a retreat on the channel harbours and they asked for instance a defence line on the Yser instead of the line Ostend Bruges...but I will try to seek if I can't find the pages about the event from the Britsh Major Ellis...an dyes you had also the king staying at Wijnendale near Torhout, when Prime minister and foreing affairs ministers wanted to part with the army into France...the start of the King's Question...I read some twenty books about it, among others the two of the son of Lord Keyes in defence of the King...

I found the book of Major Ellis back:
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/War-France-And-Flanders-1939-1940/dp/1845740564"]War In France And Flanders 1939-1940: History Of The Second World War: United Kingdom Military Series: Official Campaign History: Maj L. F. Ellis, J.R. M. Butler: 9781845740566: Amazon.com: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/417Uii9dJPL.@@AMEPARAM@@417Uii9dJPL[/ame]

And you can read it in full:
HyperWar: The War in France and Flanders, 1939-1940 (UK--History of the Second World War)
Also about 21 May at Ypres i found my thread back:
Tribune Histoire ? Consulter le sujet - Les Responsabilités de la Belgique dans le désastre...
"Le 21 Mai Weygand parle du contre-offensive sur le flanc nord de la percée allemand. Il demande à l'armée belge de se retirer à l'Yser et d'entretenir le contact avec le flanc anglais. Van Overstraeten a une autre idée: une redoute avec les Anglais de Zeebruges à Boulogne qui est aprovisionée de l'Angleterre, mais Weygand n'écoute pas tres attentif et reste sur son plan Yser. Le Roi dit qu'on doit avoir l'opinion de Gort qu'on n'a pas trouvé jusqu'à maintenant. Aprés l'arrivée de Bilotte on parvient à un accord que les Belges restent sur leurs positions et qu'ils prennent les positions des Anglais qui partent à la contre-offensive. Le Roi et Van Overstraeten étaient d'accord. Mais avec ça ils prolongent leur front de 90 kilomètres.
Le Général Weygand n'a pas de temps à perdre et doit partir pour informer Reynaud. Alors quand Weygand est parti Gort arrive. On commence de nouveau la conférence. Gort est plutôt défaitiste pour une attaque au Sud, mais il est d'accord parce qu' après tout Churchill est aussi pour cette attaque.
D'après moi le plan Weygand du rétraite à l'Yser était mieux pour raccourcir le front, mais Van Overstraeten et peut-être le Roi n'étaient pas d'accord. Et j'ai lu le même chez Major Ellis, qui disait en plus qu'avec le front de Gand ou du Lys le front était perpendiculaire au ligne des Anglais. Je reviens sur tout ça avec un nouveau "sujet". (personne n'avait un mot français pour l' Anglais: "thread"?). D'après moi ça illustre aussi l'atmosphére de malentendus et d'improvisation de tous les cotés et tous avec des differents plans.

"21 May Weygand contre offensive on the north flanc of teh german breakthrough...
Belgian army has to retreat to the Yser and keep contact with the English flanc.
Van Overstraeten Belgian commander ask together with the King a redoubt between Zeebruges and Boulogne with supply direct from England...but Weygand don't listen attentively and stays to his plan of the Yser. The king says that one has to wait for teh opinion of Gort who is too late and not arrived yet...after the arrival of Billotte one comes to an accord witht eh King and Vanoverstraeten that the Belgians stay at their positions and that they extend theri lines to keep the positions of the English who depart for the contre offensive...but with that they extend their front with 90 kilometers...
Weygand has no time to spent and has to leave to inform Reynaud And then when Weygand has left Gort arrives...one starts again the conference...Gort is more defaitist for this attack to the South but he has to agree because Churchill is also for the attack...
In my opinion the retreat of the front to the Yser was better as it was shortening the front, but the King and Van Overstraeten didn't agree...and taht was alos the opinion of Major Ellis in the book I mentioned here above
Also in my humble opinion this illustrates the atmosphere of misunderstandments and improviaation from all the sides and all with different plans...
It is a wonder that nevertheless there came some bold action at Arras...

Kind regards, Paul.
 
Dec 2011
1,321
Belgium
#28
I hope you gentlemen can assist me. I am looking for full free PDF books about the fall of France. I have googled and googled but can only find very little. Obviously the newer books still have copy right, and I don't want to steal stuff when I can pay for it, but surely there must be some older books that don't carry copy right that I can download?

I have read about those amazing six weeks in many books, but never a book that exclusively covers it. Strategically it was their only hope of winning, but the day to day tactics is what I am interested in.

Thanks guys, hope you got something for me
De Wet,

I can't give that many book titles, and when I can tehy are mostly in French or Dutch but about Fall Gelb you can find a lot in these fora in English...don't be afraid of the German insignes...:) I didn't find noting offensive and thesay of themselves that they are apolitical...
Axis History Forum - Index page
Feldgrau.com - The German Armed Forces 1919-1945
WWIIdaybyday.com

As for the strange defeat in the Battle of France:
One of the top causes of the disaster were the French communications, which were obsolete in every section of the army, the infantery, the artillery, the aviation, the tanks...also the German strategy of using their tank weapon and the close assistance of the aviation in combined ground attacks...
if you look to the material the French were many times better than the German one...the aviation was at par with the German one, even with the new arrived US planes from Algiers....and they ended the war with more modern new planes than at the start of the war...but the radio coordination was obsolete...and they worked still with codes while the Germans in the heat of the battle sent uncoded directives for direct action...
And the young German officers had more room to take immediate initiatives on the battlefield....and the young soldiers were more motivated by 7 years of brain-washing...

And yes when the French started to really resist in the middle of France Pétain asked the armistice...
I read a forum about the what if France fights on the 17th of June...
In the time I found the English translation but today I find only the original version.
It is meticousely related to the reality and one can learn a lot about the real battle of France too...
1940 - La France continue la guerre - Fantasque Time Line

Kind regards, Paul.