Fall of Mohenjo Daro

Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,374
New Delhi, India
#11
Mohanjodaro (Moyan-jo-dero, I always want to put it like that, Mohanjodaro linguistically does not make any sense), was a trading town like Lothal. Trade in the East dwindled for some reason and that in West increased, Rakhigarhi, Kalibangan, etc. That I think is the reason for decline of Moyan-jo-dero, added perhaps by a pestilence (the 40 skeletons), and the city never recovered. Not any violence, IMHO.
 

Devdas

Ad Honorem
Apr 2015
4,429
India
#12
It is the historians (not me) who are deducing that it was most likely a Dravidian civilization, based on the prevailing IVC lingam worship, depictions on the IVC seals etc, without even having to decipher the language. There is enough other evidences that exist which point that way according to them. Any academic level history books would say that.
IVC is believed as Dravidian only because of a political agenda and identity politics, otherwise the linguistic or ethnic identity of IVC can't be established because IVC script still hasn't been deciphered and moreover we see cultural continuity of Indo-Gangetic culture with Indus valley civilization through Cemetery H culture. Lingam worshiping has its origin in worshiping of Yupa Stambha mentioned in Atharva Veda. This Aryan Gods or Dravidian Gods concept was invented to divide Hindus because Hinduism as a religion in deeply rooted in South India.
 
Nov 2016
1,531
Indus Valley, Pakistan
#13
True, it is the Neolithic farmers, especially from the Iran region, who migrated into the Indus valley who started the settled communities by the Indus river. I doubt they looked like the Iranians of today, since the migrations took place before the light skin mutations. It took time for them to develop a civilization, that by the time they did so, it was a kind of its own with unique features, that one might call South Asian.
I agree. We can't make any conclusion as to what they looked like. Only genetics might be able to sort that puzzle so let us leave it at that. However there is no doubt that there was a west to east drift from Near East.

The pre-Indus sites are all on the western flank of Indus River. Even Mohenjo Daro is on the west bank of Indus. The pre-Indus sites are all found [crazy claims notwithstanding] to the west of Indus in Iran, Afghanistan and the mountains in the western portion of Pakistan. Sites like Mehr Garh, Rehman Dheri, Kulli, Sutkagan Dor in Western Pakistan, Mundigak in Afghanistan and Shahr-e-Sokhta in Iran merely reinforce findings of the study I linked in earlier post #7. From there they dropped down and flourished on the Indus Plain.








Drift from Near East to the Indus River.



 
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Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,374
New Delhi, India
#15
What you have asked is a very difficult question, Bullit, cannot be answered - at least connot be dismissed in a few words. I wrote a reply. It is good that I was not able to post it. Now I think it would have been very childish. There are so many things involved.

1. Trade: Did for any reason Mohenjodaro (my spelling - I do not know if it will be correct or not - Moyan-jo-Dero) trade vanished? If they were trading with Iran or Gulf, what was the situation there at that time.
2. Invasion: Though no trace of a battle is found in Mohenjodaro, did the people flee before the invaders (Aryans?) came?
3. Disease: The forty skeletons that are found in Mohenjodaro did not die in a battle. What was the reason of their death? Plague or Cholera? (In case the water supply dwindled then the water may have become polluted)
4. Course of the river: Perhaps Indus is not so constant as you seem to think. There is a sharp turn in Indus at Sukkur. Chanhudaro is near Nawabshah, and there are residual lakes/marshes in that area. Who knows is Indus took that route? There is another channel which connects Sukkur with Sanghar. Did Indus at any time, even for a shorter time, flow in that channel - Nara.
5. Climate change: Other than water, you need the right temperatures for crops. Was it a prolonged El-Nino effect that made Mohenjodaro to be abandoned. There are examples in the world for this, the Saharan cultures and the South American cultures. And lastly,
6. Being ruled by a debouch dictator.

"Kuldhara is an abandoned village in the Jaisalmer district of Rajasthan, India. Established around 13th century, it was once a prosperous village inhabited by Paliwal Brahmins. It was abandoned (Aup adds: according to legends, suddenly) by the early 19th century for unknown reasons, possibly because of dwindling water supply, or as a local legend claims, because of persecution by the Jaisalmer State's minister Salim Singh. A 2017 study suggests that Kuldhara and other neighbouring villages were abandoned because of an earthquake. Over years, Kuldhara acquired reputation as a haunted site, and the Government of Rajasthan decided to develop it as a tourist spot in the 2010s."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuldhara

Kuldhara village.

Oh, I did post my childish message. Now I think that the story is much more complicated than that. :eek:
I know you cannot get over your Middle-East fixation. :D
 
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Nov 2016
1,531
Indus Valley, Pakistan
#16
Oh, I did post my childish message. Now I think that the story is much more complicated than that. :eek:
I know you cannot get over your Middle-East fixation. :D
With respect, Aup., I don't have fixation to anything. If you notice I provided solid, international, peer reviewed academic papers to backup my assertion about the influence from the Near East. In addition anything I said I reinforced it with facts on the ground via Google Earth imagery etc.

No fables, stories, anecdotes, tales, scriptures, he said so, she said so were posited by me. What I indeed do not like is what I call "Indocentrist" revisionist historians who like Afrocentrists (who claim everything as African) make it look like everything and anything came from India. Most of this is done by using dubious sources or Hindu fables. To my eyes that is not history.
 
Nov 2016
1,531
Indus Valley, Pakistan
#17
I annotated various Pre-Indus sites on the Western flank of the Indus. Iran, Afghanistan and Western Pakistan. This fits in with the Near East drift to South Asia.


"Abstract

The Fertile Crescent in the Near East is one of the independent origins of the Neolithic, the source from which farming and pottery-making spread across Europe from 9,000 to 6,000 years ago at an average rate of about 1 km/yr. There is also strong evidence for causal connections between the Near-Eastern Neolithic and that further east, up to the Indus Valley. The Neolithic in South Asia has been far less explored than its European counterpart, especially in terms of absolute (14C) dating; hence, there were no previous attempts to assess quantitatively its spread in Asia. We combine the available 14C data with the archaeological evidence for early Neolithic sites in South Asia to analyze the spatio-temporal continuity of the Neolithic dispersal from the Near East through the Middle East and to the Indian subcontinent. We reveal an approximately linear dependence between the age and the geodesic distance from the Near East, suggesting a systematic (but not necessarily uniform) spread at an average speed of about 0.65 km/yr."







The Near-Eastern Roots of the Neolithic in South Asia
 
Nov 2016
1,531
Indus Valley, Pakistan
#18
And in order to avoid Indocentrist legends, fables which dominate the "Asian" history section I ended up posting this thread here.
 
Jun 2012
1,780
chandigarh
#19
And in order to avoid Indocentrist legends, fables which dominate the "Asian" history section I ended up posting this thread here.
Most of what you are stating is theory just like all other Indocentrist fables and legend and theory that is not even mainstream.
 
Nov 2016
1,531
Indus Valley, Pakistan
#20
Most of what you are stating is theory just like all other Indocentrist fables and legend and theory that is not even mainstream.
Below is not a "legend" or "fable" or "scripture" and it's not even South Asian thus making it free from agenda politics of South Asia.

The Near-Eastern Roots of the Neolithic in South Asia

And Mohenjo Daro is exactly 3,200 feet from River Indus. Check out the Google Earth imagery. Indus is to Indus Civilization (thus called IVC) as Nile is to Egyptian civilization. To my eyes I see remarkable similarity in how Afrocentrist try to use Nile/Egypt as Indocentrists try to use Indus River to inform a greater agenda.
 
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