Famous homosexual ancient Greeks and Romans

Sep 2014
773
Texas
#51
Again, homosexuality was NEVER, at any point, and acceptable societal value in Rome as it was in most of Greece, minus Sparta and a few other city states. Homosexuality was explicitly illegal, and the penalty in the legions was death. The reason people sometimes make this mistake is that all of Rome's villains are described as homosexuals and it was a common way to slander an enemy.

Cicero, for his part, never condemned an enemy without accusing him of homosexuality, and, whereas there may be something to Ceasar's bi-sexuality, a lot of what we know about it is attributable to Cicero's slanders about surrendering his virginity on a bed of luxury in Bithynia.

Hadrian had male lovers, but it was considered hugely problematic to the people. The source on that is the Augustine Scribe.

No source says that Alexander and Hephaestion were lovers, although I have found a Roman source that "accuses" him of homosexuality with Boagas (though, in an interesting sidenote, in an era where we increasingly look at transgender men as some form of woman, this might not be considered homosexuality today).

Achilles and Patrolocus were not homosexuals. Anyone who as actually read the Iliad knows that the driving part of the story is Achilles love for a woman. Nor is homosexuality mentioned.

To add to your list, all of the bad emperors were accused: Tiberius, Caligula, Nero, Commodus, Heliogalbus...I think Vittelius.

Trajan was "accused" by Dio of pederasty, though he was considered a good emperor and Dio said that "at least he harmed no one."

Xenophon was definitely bi-sexual.

Plato seems to have been a repressed homosexual or bi-sexual. He looked upon the desire as "normal" but condemned the action all the same.



Some of his essays have some very explicit pro-homosexual content, such as Agesilaus and Hiero the tyrant.



Been awhile since I read Suetonius but I seem to remember that Augustus was so in love with Syrian virgin girls that his own wife would bribe him by bringing them to him to defile.



They absolutely did have such categories, and even insults, such as Kainaidos. Each society had very strict rules about it--even in Athens where a man could get away with it, and the desire might be considered "normal," a man was expected to be quiet about it.
Xenophon was bisexual? Where does that come from please? He was so straight he argued against Plato's accusation that Socrates screwed Alcibiades. Of course both men were dead when Plato accused teacher of molesting student.
 
Sep 2016
801
Georgia
#52
To be sure, Achilles' response is motivated primarily by offended honour (honour being the most essential value for a Greek warrior), but there is no contradiction between that and the idea that he loves Briseis; in point of fact, if he loves Briseis, the offence to his honour in having her taken away from him would be all the worse. Since he talks of her as being like a wife to him, and he talks of their relationship being like that between Paris and Helen, I think it is fairly clear that we are supposed to think of him as valuing her as much more than a mere concubine.
Yeah, that makes sense. I'm just pointing out that Achilles values his honor more than anything and doesn't want to help Greeks, despite Agamemnon being ready to give back Briseis. Other poster argued, that love is main motivation for Achilles and he is primarily driven by love. I tried to point out that it isn't really the case and there is other main motivation for Achilles.
Also, strongest reaction and response in whole story that we get from Achilles is when Patroclus dies.
 
Sep 2014
773
Texas
#53
All gay men see women in the same light as necessary animals ? Where did you get that from ? Gay men see women as other human beings and treat them like that. At least, majority does.
I just dropped out of Quora, a very progay website and saw enough of what gay men think of women. We are simply a nuisance that gets in the way of more men.And I really got tired of gay rewritten history. It gets tiresome after awhile. Now I am 100% OK with gay men seeing god and Jesus as gay men...we after all see god in our own image. But it does get tiresome seeing it over and over...why don't women...women are the cause....so I left.
 
Sep 2016
801
Georgia
#55
I just dropped out of Quora, a very progay website and saw enough of what gay men think of women. We are simply a nuisance that gets in the way of more men.And I really got tired of gay rewritten history. It gets tiresome after awhile. Now I am 100% OK with gay men seeing god and Jesus as gay men...we after all see god in our own image. But it does get tiresome seeing it over and over...why don't women...women are the cause....so I left.
All gay men I know are very nice people and respectable to women. Many have female friends and etc. Don't know what's up with those people on Quora that you encountered, probably have some issues.

There is actually community of Incels, who are primarily heterosexual men and stuff they say about females ( they don't really use term ,, women'' ) is disgusting. Some even advocating for rape.
 
Sep 2014
773
Texas
#56
If Achilles loved Briseis? If? Sounds like she'd be better off with Agememnon, he did love women.

Gentlemen, this is the reason why I care nothing for Achilles. He was a spoiled petulanct child who apparently kept a woman prisoner the way you keep a dog. Mu favorites were always Menelaus (who spared his wife's boobs..gotta love a man who loves boobs) and Diomedes who kept trying to kill his lady (Cressida) love's former fiance (Troilus).

Look Achilles was whatever you wanted him to be. He was a pedophile in Greek art trying to seduce a six year old boy (there is a painting on a kylx from 700 BC that shows him flirting with Briseis....four hundred years later same Achilles but she is now a little boy)

Achilles was a necrophiliac - having sex with the dead body of an Amazon queen.

There is a gay myth he screwed Troilus to death because Troilus had to die or Troy couldn't be taken. Gay rape...what a way to go.

He even demanded a human sacrifice from the grave, and they gave him a Trojan princess. Lucky girl.

Oh one last thing, he actually claimed to have been married to Helen towards the end of the story, but that was to avoid the gloomy underworld.


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...s_departure_Eretria_Painter_CdM_Paris_851.jpg this is a nice little painting from classical times.

And with this in mind, Achilles is what you want him to be be. I see Achilles as being deeply passionately in love with the girl. Gay men remove her from the story. It is what it is. *shrugs* kind of like gay Jesus...it really doesn't matter now, does it?
 
Sep 2014
773
Texas
#57
All gay men I know are very nice people and respectable to women. Many have female friends and etc. Don't know what's up with those people on Quora that you encountered, probably have some issues.

There is actually community of Incels, who are primarily heterosexual men and stuff they say about females ( they don't really use term ,, women'' ) is disgusting. Some even advocating for rape.
Incels are dangerous. The man who murdered those women in Canada was one. You are correct there. I have crossed paths with them in Star Wars fandom of all places. My dropping out of Quora had more to do wtih getting angry at the men I ran into there. I do not let it color my thoughts anywhere else.
 
Aug 2010
15,244
Welsh Marches
#58
These are mythical characters, and one has to distinguish between their standard mythology and other tales that may be told about them, or accusations that may be made against (e.g.of necophilia) by other mythical charcters. It is meaningles to say on the basis of some minor tale that Achilles 'was' a pedophile. And keeping captive women as concubines was an accepted practice of the time, it says nothingspecific about Achilles that he should have dones, while it does say something about him (in the Homeric portrayal) that he should have loved her as though she were a valued wife.
 
Sep 2016
801
Georgia
#59
These are mythical characters, and one has to distinguish between their standard mythology and other tales that may be told about them, or accusations that may be made against (e.g.of necophilia) by other mythical charcters. It is meaningles to say on the basis of some minor tale that Achilles 'was' a pedophile. And keeping captive women as concubines was an accepted practice of the time, it says nothingspecific about Achilles that he should have dones, while it does say something about him (in the Homeric portrayal) that he should have loved her as though she were a valued wife.
Achilles is great character, in my opinion and he has an arc in Iliad. Which concludes with him meeting King Priam and letting that rage go away.

Diomedes is probably my favorite one though.
 
Aug 2010
15,244
Welsh Marches
#60
I think Homer regards him as being a noble character, but with certain failings, as being so proud and passionate that he is inclined to go too far. An overscrupulous concern for honour was not of course regarded as being much of a failing in that society. He is not a one-dimensional character in any case.
 
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