Fighting the communism in Greece

Nov 2014
976
USA
I felt this correction was necessary because you made it sound like the people of Greece were fanatically anti-communists which was generally not the case.


Yes you are correct, The Greeks were not originally fanatically anticommunist, but a lot of them became so after the civil war when they saw all the atrocities committed by the communists in order to establish a Stalinist regime in Greece.
In fact more people were killed during the Civil/guerrilla war, than what they did from the Germans during the occupation.

This is just one more case of Britain's involvement causing more bloodshed than necessary.
The British had their own interests in Greece for their involvement, they wanted to dominate in the Mediterranean sea like they were even before WWII.
Churchill and Stalin had agreed at Yalta, that Greece would fall under the influence of Great Britain after the war, unlike Bulgaria, Albania, Yugoslavia and the rest of the East European countries that were to fall under the influence of the Soviet Union.

Unfortunately for the British, three years later in 1947 they realized that they were not the great imperial power they used to be before WWII, and they couldn't afford to do the things they used to.

It was time for the Americans to take over!
 
Aug 2019
11
Ashrakhan
Yes you are correct, The Greeks were not originally fanatically anticommunist, but a lot of them became so after the civil war when they saw all the atrocities committed by the communists in order to establish a Stalinist regime in Greece.
I would claim that all the perjury, exiles and executions had the exact opposite effect.

In fact more people were killed during the Civil/guerrilla war, than what they did from the Germans during the occupation.
More Greeks died in the fields of battle during the civil war than those in all the other 20th century Greek wars combined, with more than half of them being communists.
 
Nov 2014
976
USA
I would claim that all the perjury, exiles and executions had the exact opposite effect.


I'm not 100% sure exactly to what you are referring to.
If it is what I'm thinking, I have trouble especially justifying the word "perjury".

You care to explain?

More Greeks died in the fields of battle during the civil war than those in all the other 20th century Greek wars combined,


I don't think that is true.
Taking into consideration the two Balkan wars (1912-1913), the Asia Minor invasion/catastrophe (1919-1922), and the invasion of Italians (1940), and Germans (1941) including those from both during the occupation, I don't think it adds up!

with more than half of them being communists.
It depends to what specifically war/s you are referring to!
If you are talking only about the civil/guerrilla war between Greeks in the '40s it might be true ………..
if you are referring to other wars it is absolutely wrong!
 
Aug 2019
11
Ashrakhan
I'm not 100% sure exactly to what you are referring to.
If it is what I'm thinking, I have trouble especially justifying the word "perjury".

You care to explain?
They were using perjury in order to justify executions.

I don't think that is true.
Taking into consideration the two Balkan wars (1912-1913), the Asia Minor invasion/catastrophe (1919-1922), and the invasion of Italians (1940), and Germans (1941) including those from both during the occupation, I don't think it adds up!
I find it amusing that you count the invasion of the Italians and the invasion of the Germans separately as if the total death count will somehow increase if you account for them this way.
The approximation is something like:
Balkan Wars: 12000
1919-1922 war: 20000
WW2: 35000
Civil War: 70000

It depends to what specifically war/s you are referring to!
If you are talking only about the civil/guerrilla war between Greeks in the '40s it might be true ………..
if you are referring to other wars it is absolutely wrong!
I am referring to the civil war.
 
Sep 2019
182
Slovenia
Italians were losing in Greece and that's wny Germans intervened in 1941 in Balkans. They tried to lure kingdom of Yugoslavia in this to by promising the port city of Solun to Yugoslavia after the war. This plans were stopped by public demonstrations in Yugoslavia in early 1941 and British supported military coup against prince Pavle who was ready to make a deal with Germany. Yugoslavia would remain neutral in WW2 but in German sphere of influence. On the another hand the British promised the correction of Yugoslavia border with Italy if the country will stand with them in war.

 
Nov 2014
976
USA
They were using perjury in order to justify executions.
This might had been the case in isolated instances.
The overwhelming cases however had to do with atrocious crimes committed by fanatic communists,
all in the name of their ideology.

I find it amusing that you count the invasion of the Italians and the invasion of the Germans separately
I do, because the Italian invasion took place in October 1940, while the German invasion took place 6 months later in April 1941.

as if the total death count will somehow increase if you account for them this way.
The total death numbers increase, if you take also into account the deaths caused during their occupation of Greece for 3.5 years.

The approximation is something like:
Balkan Wars: 12000
1919-1922 war: 20000
WW2: 35000
Civil War: 70000
Where did you find these numbers?

I am referring to the civil war.
During the civil war (1943-1945), and including the guerrilla war (1946-1949) probably more communists died.
That's probably right.
 
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Aug 2019
11
Ashrakhan
This might had been the case in isolated instances.
The overwhelming cases however had to do with atrocious crimes committed by fanatic communists,
all in the name of their ideology.
What crimes, who were the fanatic communists and who is the judge in what we call an isolated instance and what not?

I do, because the Italian invasion took place in October 1940, while the German invasion took place 6 months later in April 1941.
Unimportant

The total death numbers increase, if you take also into account the deaths caused during their occupation of Greece for 3.5 years.
I am not talking about civilians.

Where did you find these numbers?
Wikipedia
 
Nov 2014
976
USA
What crimes, who were the fanatic communists and who is the judge in what we call an isolated instance and what not?
They were the ones who thought they had to eliminate all opposition in order to impose communism after the Germans left.
The end justifies the means!

The overwhelming majority of them could not have been due to perjury, because the whole thing would have become ridiculous and laughable by everybody.

nimportant
Not so, because both invasions did not happen at the same time!

I am not talking about civilians.
The guerrilla casualties from both sides did not stop during the occupation, and it wasn't only civilians who died but fighting men also!

Wikipedia
What's the site?
 
Aug 2019
11
Ashrakhan
They were the ones who thought they had to eliminate all opposition in order to impose communism after the Germans left.
The end justifies the means!

The overwhelming majority of them could not have been due to perjury, because the whole thing would have become ridiculous and laughable by everybody.
Yes, their preferred method was exile.

Not so, because both invasions did not happen at the same time!
It doesn't matter because both of the invasions were the effect of WW2 and its easier to categorize them as such when discussing casualties.


The guerrilla casualties from both sides did not stop during the occupation, and it wasn't only civilians who died but fighting men also!
Yes but they were minimal and they are probably also included in the numbers above.


What's the site?