Frankish defeat by Muslims = no modern civilisation?

Status
Closed
Aug 2018
442
london
#1
Interesting bit from Eupedia:

"After two centuries of rule, the waning power of the Merovingian dynasty prompted Charles Martel (686-741), a native from Liège, to proclaime himself Duke of the Franks and was in all but name de facto ruler of the Frankish Realms. In 732, he routed the invading Islamic Moorish armies of the Umayyad Caliphate at the Battle of Poitiers (also known as the Battle of Tours), thus saving Europe from Islamisation. This is one of the most important achievements of the Franks in the history of Europe up to this day. Without Charles Martel, Europe, or at least Western Continental Europe, would have become part of the Muslim world, an event that would almost certainly have prevented the Renaissance from happening, and would consequently also have precluded the Great Voyages, the Colonisation, the Enlightenment, the Industrial Revolution, and everything that follows. Without Charles Martel, Europe might well have stagnated to the medieval period to this day. As a result, modern technologies wouldn't exist anywhere on Earth."

A brief history of the Franks

Do you agree with this or not?
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
20,235
SoCal
#2
The impact of this might have depended on whether certain Arab practices--such as cousin marriage--would have become more widespread in Europe in the centuries after 732 in this scenario. If they would have, then you could see a duller, more clannish, and less universalistic European population.
 
Likes: macon

Rodger

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
6,113
US
#3
It's hard to say. In 732 the Muslim invaders were more concerned with conquest then civilization. As time elapsed the Islamic world embraced learning and culture. Look at what developed in Spain, for example. Still, would the interior of Europe have received the same attention I would venture to say, no. So, I would agree that Europe's development would have been stunted overall.
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
20,235
SoCal
#5
There was no prospect of Muslim conquest of Europe. Battle of Tours is one of the most overrated battles in History.

It was a raid. It was not a attempted invasion. There was no attempted invasion.
But might the Muslims have eventually attempted to invade had their raid not been so soundly defeated?
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
20,235
SoCal
#6
It's hard to say. In 732 the Muslim invaders were more concerned with conquest then civilization. As time elapsed the Islamic world embraced learning and culture. Look at what developed in Spain, for example. Still, would the interior of Europe have received the same attention I would venture to say, no. So, I would agree that Europe's development would have been stunted overall.
There was a Muslim golden age up to 1300 or so and then the Muslim world began stagnating. I wonder why. I've heard cousin marriage as a possible explanation for this, but I don't know if it's correct.
 
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pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
9,280
#10
Here's another source that confirms those numbers.
Battle of Tours (732 A.D.)
You like to make absurd comments with no proof. Fantasy I call it. Back up your "fiction" claim. Provide a source to dispute mine. I'm waiting for more than your laughable opinion.
is there no number that you are going to question?

400,000 we can dismiss this utter fantasy without a remotest connection to the real world. A fantasist.
 
Likes: macon
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