Gaining a WW2 unconditional Japanese surrender from naval blockade?

Jul 2016
9,478
USA
#61
Certainly MacArthur achieved all of that. But he didn't eradicate Japanese nationalism, which he had the chance to do. Maybe that would have meant putting HIrohito on trial, or a more impartial Tokyo war tribunal, I don't know.

Can you imagine Germany having the equivalent of the Yasukuni shrine and museum that glorifies the war and repeats the nationalist myths anout Japan liberating Asia from the colonial powers?
Wasn't that shrine controversy many years after Mac retired and died?
 
Feb 2019
345
California
#62
Certainly MacArthur achieved all of that. But he didn't eradicate Japanese nationalism, which he had the chance to do. Maybe that would have meant putting HIrohito on trial, or a more impartial Tokyo war tribunal, I don't know.

Can you imagine Germany having the equivalent of the Yasukuni shrine and museum that glorifies the war and repeats the nationalist myths anout Japan liberating Asia from the colonial powers?
Well I see where you are coming from. However, it seems to me that if MacArthur had had the type of approach that would have resulted in the complete eradication of these things, he would not have succeeded. Trying the emperor would have been most unwise, to say the least. Better that one guilty man should go free such that a bunch of nut-case assassians don't screw things up for an entire nation.........
 

Naomasa298

Forum Staff
Apr 2010
34,435
T'Republic of Yorkshire
#63
Wasn't that shrine controversy many years after Mac retired and died?
Not sure about the public controversy but they seemed to have started enshrining war criminals in the late 50s and 60s.
Yasukuni Shrine - Wikipedia

The last time I was in Japan, I was invited to go to a Japanese nationalist association meeting. I didn't go, but it would have been interesting (assuming my Japanese was good enough to follow what was going on). I have the book they were promoting somewhere, I should see if I can find it (reading it is another matter though).
 
Jul 2016
9,478
USA
#64
Not sure about the public controversy but they seemed to have started enshrining war criminals in the late 50s and 60s.
Yasukuni Shrine - Wikipedia
Seems to have started in '59. Mac was still alive but retired and out of politics. Its messed up that it was allowed, but not Mac's fault. In fact, at that point it wasn't even America's call to make, as the occupation had ended in the early 50s (Mac's idea, since they were fully onboard helping out with the Korean War, and were doing really well, all things considered).
 
Mar 2019
1,437
Kansas
#65
Seems to have started in '59. Mac was still alive but retired and out of politics. Its messed up that it was allowed, but not Mac's fault. In fact, at that point it wasn't even America's call to make, as the occupation had ended in the early 50s (Mac's idea, since they were fully onboard helping out with the Korean War, and were doing really well, all things considered).
I once saw a wonderful conspiracy theory that said the US only went into Korea to help kick start Japans manufacturing base lol
 
Jul 2016
9,478
USA
#66
I once saw a wonderful conspiracy theory that said the US only went into Korea to help kick start Japans manufacturing base lol
We did push it, encouraged them to get into creature comfort electronics, and also tought them about quality control and other business innovations that the Japanese would not just embrace but become famous for.
 

botully

Ad Honorem
Feb 2011
3,544
Amelia, Virginia, USA
#68
But where do the Big Six express that fear? Where are they shown to be more fearful of a Soviet invasion of Sakhalin and other northern islands, but less fearful of US invasion of Kyushu and Honshu?
Sorry, I was phone-posting in haste from the cab of a crane during a rain shower.
I was referring to the Jan. '45 meeting of the Privy Council where Prince Konoe urged Hirohito to end the war as soon as possible, specifically fearing "communist" revolution. I put that in quotes because the conservative members of the elite would use the label somewhat broadly. The fear, of course, was to the kokutai, which ended up being the sticking point with the Americans.
Communists and leftists were ruthlessly suppressed after they won a few seats in the Diet during the abortive early 20's reforms. The war in China was (partly) framed as an anti-communist measure.
All of that to say that in the event of a communist takeover, the kokutai would have ended utterly.
Obviously it would have been better had I not posted.:oops:
 

botully

Ad Honorem
Feb 2011
3,544
Amelia, Virginia, USA
#69
Maybe not, but there was no reason to insist on unconditional surrender. There was no need to drop the bomb, get the Russians involved, or invade Japan. Just negotiate peace. I know that didn't work in 1918 with Germany. However, it was like with the Nazis where they intended to hang the leaders.
I'd be interested in hearing your ideas about what terms would be acceptable to the Americans and the Japanese.
Will you include in your deliberations the Dutch, British, Chinese, Australians...do the Koreans get a say? Do we include the Chinese Communists?
How many people around Asia must continue to suffer and die so that Hirohito and his generals don't have to experience shame?
 
Likes: andyferdinard
Jul 2019
31
Thailand
#70
The author Max Hastings claims in his book "All Hell Let Loose" that by Summer 1944, American dominance of the Pacific was so great, and her superiority over the Japanese in terms of trained men and equipment was so massive, that she could eventually have forced Japan to surrender without launching any further conventional offensives, let alone employing the atomic bomb.
 

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